e-Bay now PROTECTING SGS!!!

This is in regard to my post here "SGS Experiment on Submission Request" I made earlier.

I also posted an extremely editted version on e-Bay. I did my best to keep the post moderate in order to keep it from being pulled and for the life of me I cannot find the actuall reason it was pulled??????

Here's a copy of the acutall language of the post....

SGS Submission Experiment !!! LIES !!!

A friend of mine and I were talking recently and we decided to contact Star Grading Service in an attempt to do a submission test to see exactly what they would tell us and we both believed the request would be turned down as we believe that in order to get coins graded by them you have to be part of their "FAMILY". However, we wanted to make sure that it wasn't due to the number of coins being submitted.

I wrote them two different e-mail submissions using two different anonymous e-mail accounts one day apart with requests and WHOOAAAA did we get two different interesting responses.

First we submitted a request to grade a 1964 Proof set and then we submitted a request to grade an unopened mint box of 10 - 20th Anniversary Silver Eagles.

SGS responded almost immediately to both e-mails.

I will not post the edited copies of the e-mails here in this forum but they can be found in the Groups forum along with the unedited portion of this post

HERE

JUST REMEMBER!!!! SGS LIES!!!! LIES!!!! LIES!!!!

And not just about the grades of their coins!!!

Here's the e-mail I received from e-Bay today...

In order for the community forums, which are based on the eBay Community ValuIes, to be a place where all members can feel comfortable interacting with each other, there are certain types of posts that we have to remove if reported to us. The guidelines for posting in the forums are defined in the Board Usage Policy. Your post was specifically removed for the following reason:

Posting listing reports or member violations. To report suspected violations, please use the online forms on the Investigations page. For clarification of this policy, please visit this page:

http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=410492023

We understand that most posts that are removed were not intentional violations. Please take a moment to review the Board Usage Policy and policy explanations via the following URLs for clarification about the types of posts that we do allow:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/everyone-boards.html

http://forums.ebay.com/forum.jspa?forumID=2005

Again, we value your participation in the forums, and we appreciate your support.

Regards,
Edith
eBay Moderation Team

SHEESH GO FIGURE!!!!!!

I didn't mention ANY e-Bay member or point to ANY auction in my post. Can someone here explain what was wrong with the post?????

Well I guess SGS must be an e-Bay member!!!!:mouth: :mouth: :mouth: :mouth:

BTW, the "HERE" link in the e-Bay post is a link to the Group forum for "CoinForgeryeBay" group. Funny that message hasn't been pulled!!! I do understand that the moderator of that group is really hard nosed regarding e-Bay interferring in his group. Some of you might just want to go over and join that group and take a look at what's been going on there it's really interesting. :hammer:

 

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It sounds like that a class action lawsuit should be launched against both eBay & SGS,especially if you have been conned into paying a rip-off price way above what the coin is actually worth.Who knows,you may have legal recourse under the laws of the State of California,or even under U.S. federal law,or even better still,under both sets of legislation.

Does anyone agree with me on this

 

No, suing is absurd. Since there are no standard regulations about "grading", therefore if a lawsuit is to occur, the lawsuit will not be about who is scamming who, but instead, the subjectivity of grading and therefore a big waste of money and time.

Now remember, it is the buyers are giving good profits to them. Else why do they still exist? Of course, there are plenty of profit to be made.

 

Actually, I would have to disagree on this issue. When filing your suit, you would make your complaint claims in the initial complaint. As long as the subject of the Grading Standard is not used, and only the issue of fraud with regards to SGS as a "third party" grader, as well as non-disclosure of business association between the claimed manufacturer and the distributor, then the Grading Standard (and thus subjectivity of grading) would be non-material to the suit.

The problem here is not the grades assigned to the coins so much as it is the non-disclosed first party relationship between Aboncom and SGS, whereas Aboncom claims third party manufacturer/distributor relationship with SGS, while evidence points to the two entities being first party and one subsidiary to the other. This constitutes fraud.

However, in order to make a civil claim, I believe you would have had to had sustained some substantial financial loss in order to do so. Otherwise, it is completely up to the government to make a move to indict on criminal fraud charges. But, in order to do so, they would need multiple substantiated claims made against SGS/Aboncom, which nobody seems to want to do. The U.S. Federal Trade Commission and the Attorney Generals of each State and the U.S. are there for a purpose. People simply need to start utilizing them if we ever want to see something done about SGS and others. And it needs to be done purely on the basis of fraud and not Grading Standards.

It is the individual responsibility of the collector to learn about the hobby, and this includes grading. There are many forums and site resources on the web readily available to collectors just like this one, and people need to simply utilize those resources properly. The unfortunate thing about it is when you have companies such as eBay who, in all appearances, are protecting these companies through censorship.

We can gripe and complain all we want and it will do little good unless we are griping and complaining to the proper authorities as well. Allegations and complaints made completely on facts are what build legal cases. Submit your facts to the proper channels and eventually something will get done.

 

I would agree that you were not posting a listing report, nor a member violation. If it's possible to reply (chances are it isn't), I'd ask them to justify the removal.

 

You know, the best way to draw peoples' attention to SGS would be to begin an article at Wikipedia.

 

This brings back a few memories.

Aidan.

 

Ah, yes.
Aiden's favorite grading service!
May SGS prevail in their attempts to grade every coin in the universe MS-69 or MS-70.
(Even those that are circulated.)
Hail, SGS!

 

Frank! It isn't MY favourite grading service.We don't even have 3rd. party graders in New Zealand,but there is one in England that uses a 100 point grading system.Here's a link; www.cgs-uk.biz .

Aidan.

 

Lockett's website has been down for a while.
Hopefully the Britts have laughed him back to where he came from.

 

Jody,it goes to show why the 7 point grading system rules in the British Commonwealth,apart from Canada.

Aidan.

 

They have apparently been having a few teething problems but hope to be back on line before to long

 

Steve,let's hope that their 100 point grading system gets the big punt into touch,as it were.True British Commonwealth collectors should stick to the good old-fashioned 7 point grading system which states whether it is Unc. or not.None of this several grades of 'MS' nonsense.To me,it is either Unc. or it isn't Unc. at all.

Aidan.

 

I have no clue about law suits, but I would have say any suit against sgs would not have much to do with grading. it should be for self-slabbing and claiming to be a grader.

 

I guess the best hope is to work to make collectors aware of SGS and other self slabbers.

 

I agree. Knowledge can be a powerful tool.

Bruce

 

I guess ebay removed the discussion

"Error:
You are not authorized to view this thread. "

 

I agree wholeheartedly with everything hat "NPCoin" stated! Collectors and even Dealers (if they have unwittingly purchased some of these coins) that have suffered financial losses, should iniate claims through the Attorney General's Office in their State, the FTC and even the U.S. Attorney General's Office. Also, I believe that if eBay has willing suppressed any and/or all complaints against these entities because of the business that they do on eBay, then they can be included in any Law Suit brought by the Government and charged with Conspiracy to Commit Fraud.

Like "NPCoin" stated, these Collectors (and even Dealers) have to file the complaints before something in the way of remedy, can be started! Until then, complaints and postings on eBay or elsewhere, will do little if any good except to make folks aware of these companies.


Frank

 

We really need to get rid of this. Best option-Don't buy any slabbed coins at all....