I have a Dundee penny in very good condition. I belive that it can form part of a small collection and is very rare. I have been given an estimate by Ian Milne, but if anyone else has any advice ....... edited please contact me. Kind regards Greig Offers to buy or sell are only permitted in the Open or Auction Forums and under the rules that apply to those Forums.
Identical token (this is a Scotland "condor token", not a real coin) in Extremely Fine condition was recently sold by Falmouth Stamp & Coin for $65. HTH
Scots Trader's Halfpenny. Greigmuir,these pieces were issued during a massive coin shortage in the late 18th Century & the period right up to 1816.I regard these as being coins. Aidan.
GDJMSP,because it was the same size & intrinsic value as the British 1/2d.,which had been hoarded.If it was the same size & was the same composition,then it was considered good enough to pass as a coin,albeit,an unofficial coin. Aidan.
But that's what tokens are - something that can be used in place of a coin. But that won't ever make them coins. And using that definition - do you call all other tokens coins ? Doesn't matter really - call them whatever you like.
Oh Aidan! Dearie me laddie can ye no read? The coin is a DUNDEE PENNY and NOT a DUNDEE HALFPENNY. It didn't have the same intrinsic size or weight or value of a British 1/2d. Nor was the British 1/2 hoarded. They were just scarce. Not enough in circulation to satisfuy trade requirements. Wherever did you get the idea that they were `hoarded' from?
It isn't a coin, but it IS a token. Just as you will find that the use of arcade tokens are limited to specific arcades, the use of these trade tokens tended to be limited to the area for whic they were manufactured. There was little chance of a Dundee token being accepted as payment for goods issued in Edinburgh or Glasgow...or indeed anywhere else. Why? Getting them exchanged into `real' money would be too much hassle given that the promissory lived in Dundee and didn't have a national presence. The concept of it being used as `money' in England wopuld have been out of the question. So, from that context, sorry ....not a `coin'. None the less, it is indeed a very nice coin-like item and relatively scarce ( but I would grade it VF).
Ian,here in New Zealand,we also had trader's tokens,as there was a massive shortage of British coins during the mid-19th Century. As I collect them,a number of prominent collectors are in agreement that the trader's tokens are in a sense,New Zealand's first coins. As to arcade tokens & other things like Coke machine tokens,they are definitely exonumia,but the trader's tokens can be regarded as coins,albeit,unofficial coins,because they were widely accepted as currency. Aidan.
But Aidan....that's my point. Arcade tokens tend to be good only within the confines of the arcade. The Scottish conder tokens traded as money within the confines of their very limited trading area. It is that factor that separates them from true coins. A Dundee penny would simply not spend in London as a penny. Indeed it wouldn't have spent anywhere other than Dundee. Maybe the tokens in NZ were mutually exchangeable and acceptable the length and breadth of both islands? However this was not the case with Scottish conder tokens like the Dundee Penny. Ian ps I have a penny token `Kirkaldie' from NZ
Ian,the Kirkcaldie & Stains 1d. token is from Wellington,where I live.It is relatively common.Kirkcaldie & Stains is the only token-issuer from New Zealand that is still in business today.It is a department store.My home town of Wanganui also had trader's tokens,issued by a trader whose surname is Hurley - a 1/2d. & a 1d.Like the British trader's tokens,these circulated in a limited area,but they are still regarded as being New Zealand's first coins. Aidan.
