New poster, but I have been reading for a while. I was hoping I could get some help in grading this 1802 dollar - I just haven't seen very many and am not sure I agree with the grade it was given. Any assistance would be appreciated! And a note on the reverse - all the lines in the shield are clear - my scanner didn't like that part I don't think.
Welcome to the forum, Gabriel. Your coin looks to be around VG-F. It looks like it was cleaned sometime in its past. Charlie
Thanks for the welcome! Hrmm. I am thinking upon further reflection that the pictures I posted look worse than the actual coin does. I wonder what I did wrong? Its too bright, for one. I've been assembling a 19th century type set and this is the second to last coin I needed. I have seen lots of images of these graded as VF-20 (slabbed and not) and this one definately has more detail than that, and better than the VF-30 I have seen as well...but not as nice as the two EF-40s I saw images of, but as we all know grading is very subjective, and was hoping people who have seen more of these would have a better idea. This was sold as an EF-40 by a reputable dealer...but I don't think it is, but haven't seen enough to be sure. And yeah, I know at some point, probably 50-80 years ago, this guy was cleaned. Hard to find one this old that is *truly* original...
Gabriel, There is way too much wear on both the Obverse and Reverse to rate an EF-40 grade! In fact, even without any wear on the Obverse (which there is), the amount of wear on the Eagle, the Stars and the Clouds on the Reverse would lower the grade to at least VF-30. Yes, grading is subjective and it can depend on whether the Grader is having a good or bad day or other factors. That is why I went with VF-20 to VF-30. However, I believe that NGC, ANACS and probably PCGS would grade it as VF-20! If you purchased the coin at EF-40 prices, I believe that you should take the coin to a few other Coin Dealers for their opinions on the grade. If the consensus is that it is a VF-20 or even VF-30, then I believe you should try to return the coin to the Dealer that sold you the coin for a full refund! Frank
Howdy Gabriel - Welcome to the Forum !! Here is the ANA description for VF20 for this coin - word for word. obverse - More than half the details still show in the hair. Forhead and bust are worn but bold. Parts of the drapery are smooth. Letters and star centers are plainly visible. reverse - Head and breast are worn but some feathers are visible. Some lines in shield are merged together. About three-quarters of details in wings are clear. Motto is complete. So Gabriel, I ask you - does the coin meet these standards in your opinion ? In some regards it does, but on the obverse I cannot see any of the star centers. On the reverse, I see no feathers at all visible on the head or the breast. And I would not say that 3/4 of the wing details are clear. So in my opinion, this coin would grade no higher than F15 at best. But it is your opinion that matters.
Right away I told my self that it is between a VF-25 and a VF-30. There is just too much wear on the reverse scroll near the edges and on the wings of the bird. The obv. definitelty shows enough wear on the hair to bump it down from being an EF. Nice Coin though. I would love to have one like that.
Once again, i state my extreme displeasure for the cleaning designation. I also would like to spit out the bitter taste of NET grading. VF-20. cleaned or not.
Thanks for all the responses! I was not thinking this was an EF either, which prompted my question. I'm not thinking its worse than a VF30 tho - for example, here is an ended auction for a PCGS VF35 http://cgi.ebay.com/1799-Draped-Bus...itemZ8367794305QQcategoryZ11976QQcmdZViewItem Its got just as much wear as the one I posted does, to my eyes (my scan I think didn't capture all the detail very well, unfortunately). It was held for me almost two year ago tho...so by the time I actually got it, the price was about what you'd expect for a VF, rather than an EF, so now I need to decide if I want a non-EF in my type set or not. Must think about this...
The VF-35 shown shows a little more detail at the bottom of Liberty's bust. Just so ever slightly little that I wouldn't expect much worse than the VF-30 for your Dollar coin.
Buddy....I want to state my extreme displeasure with that post..... Cleaning is bad...that is a Fact....there is no if, ands, or buts, about it....When you post that kind of post it gives the members here the wrong idea. NET grading is also a fact...that coin collectors must learn. You have told me before that you read lots of books on coins...I have to wonder about such books that didn't teach such normal topics on cleaning and NET grading.....If a coin is cleaned and someone asks for my thoughts on the grade....I can't lie and not tell them that it has been cleaned...cleaning lowers the value...and I would be rude not to tell them the truth. I suggest that you learn alittle more about grading (we all need to do that...I need to alot!)...and about how cleaning damages coins....also search out NET grading...you will find that it is a tool that every collector needs...no matter what or how they collect. Speedy
I think that PCGS would grade this coin VF 20 or VF 30. They are much more lenient in slabbing cleaned coins of this era, and I see no obvious reason for a bodybag. Nice coin...Mike
