Don't understand TPG standards 69/70 for newly minted issues

Hi, I'm new to the US Mint products, and was wondering how a freshly minted coin could be graded differently as 69, or 70? What could possibly make the difference on a coin that has never seen any handling, certianly no circulation?

 

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Mint defects. Any circulation would in theory mean a grade below 60. Between 60 and 70 are all uncirculated coins, just different levels of preservation.

 

i recently purchased 2011-S Proof cent slabbed as PF69 and for the life of me can't find any defect even with a hi-magnifiying loop. What am I missing? (besides a one-point grade higher!)

 

Without years of experience and/or a 70 right next to it, you probably won't.

I personally hate grading of modern coins, and I hate giving any coin a 70. It should be a theoretical grade. Anyway, put them next to each other and I can sometimes find the difference, but to me paying for a 70 is just paying money for a slab, as the coins do not justify the price differences.

 

You're probably missing that very small mark which the grader spotted. It could be a pinpoint nick in the cameo of the devices. For these tiny imperfections, you have to move the coin back and forth, up and down and around in the light to spot the one very faint glimmer of shiny metal that should be frosted.

Chris

 

Pinpoint nick in the cameo - that's it! I found it. I'm perfectly happy with my PF69 for the price I paid. Thank you guys for your help!

 

Dang, that was impressive.

 

Haha...I am glad to learned it!

 

That's how easy it is to tell a PF70 from a PF69. Sometimes, the graders can miss them.

Chris

 

Does the rim also count?

 

It depends on how severe it is. I've seen 70's with very small rim nicks get by.

Chris

 

Oh...I see!

 

In short: Precisely how it lands when it is ejected from the press. How other coins minted afterwards do the same.

Strike (and luster) also sometimes comes into play, but more it's those small contact marks caused by the coining process itself.

IMO of course.

 

That's what I have always believed too, then how can there be ANY surface contact marks for specially handled proofs during the minting process?

 

OK, this may sound like a silly question: Aren't proofs supposedly minted with extreme care to avoid such flaws like planchet marks, dirt & lint, etc. and should therefore be subject to a Quality assurance inspection much like other manufactured goods; then theoretically, a below PF70 should by definition be a flawed product and should be replaced?

 

A proof coin should have a higher degree of care than a standard coin, and be struck with extra force to bring out the details fully. That is all that is really promised, though the US uses unique dies to make them. I have never read a mint promising a perfect coin. Most older proofs were probably PF65-PF67 the day they were struck. A 70 coin is just well executed, but the mint will not be beholden to a TPG for their quality assurance department, and I do not blame them.

 

While I agree the mint need not be beholden to a TPG's grade, I still think there's room to suggest that an undisputable flaw manifest on a proof coin, which is intended for collectors and sold at a premium over coins intended for circulation, should have some sort of satisfaction guarantee or replacement policy.

 

Most mints do. If you do not like the coin usually you can return them. However, returning a coin because it graded a 69 in the opinion of another firm, (its simply an opinion), to me does not make a proof "defective". I hear many coins make it into 70 holders in the exact same shape.

Sorry I just hate the MS70 or bust mentality, and any coin not grading a 70 is defective. 1/1000th of 1% of a coin detail missing to me is simply irrelevant. Its just not my game I guess.

To me a grade is an OPINION as to its state of preservation. Opinions differ. Remember, the mint doesn't even care about US coin numbering systems, grading systems, etc. That make a product to their standards that they feel are appropriate. I think they have high standards, and execute well, (though the designs suck). To be even possible that a TPG can regularly grade many of their products as "perfect" is exceptional, and having tiny, tiny defects is normal in production. I do not think any mint in the world could produce only MS70 coins without raising their prices considerably.