Don't know about you, but i find detecting cleaning (besides the obvious) not easy!

Like most people, i guess, i have no trouble spotting really obvious cleaning, specially of silver coins. Unnatural sheen, hairlines from harsh cleaning, overdipping, etc i can detect quite easily.

I have more problems when the cleaning is more subtle: i have some coins in my collection which i would swear are naturally toned, with continuous, or semi continuous hues and tones, BUT which others may reject as cleaned.

Another example: there are some coins in my collection which have been properly slabbed (not NET or DETAILS grades), and in my opinion the toning appears unnatural.
Case in point is this Anacs-slabbed quarter. It is slabbed by ANACS (one of the "good" services) as AU50, yet the toning has an unnatural, (in my opinion) glossy blue sheen which is not appealing.

On the other hand i have an 1874-S quarter also AU50, with what seems natural unbroken toning, but slabbed (by Anacs) as cleaned, net EF40.

I find it also very interesting that out of the 40 or so silver coins which i have found while metal detecting, some of which have obviously been buried for almost 2000 years, about 1/3 have come out of the earth looking shiny and bright. No toned at all, or only very very lightly. This demonstates that a coin can be untoned/bright even after prolonged environmental exposure, and be totally original.

It would be interesting to know your thoughts on this issue.

Regards,
Eduard

 

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Eduard:
I completely agree.

I had purchased one Babrer quarter years ago that the seller (dealer) and I both thought was a nice original coin.
Another dealer, who looked at it immediately said: cleaned.

So, I got it and sent it in to SEGS.

It was returned: unc, cleaned.

So, now I admit, I guess that unless it is obvious, I shall never know.

But, learn to trust a couple of people who are better then you are (and better than I am) at spotting cleaning.
\

 

Based on those pics, it looks natural to me. I see no obvious evidence of cleaning. However, I also can't open the full-size pics right now.

 

I have some coins that have been cleaned quite harshly and others that look completely original even though I know for a fact that they have been dipped. Sometimes it is darn near impossible to spot, and it really takes time, time, and more time, plus exposure to all kinds of cleanings and whizzings and whatnot to determine exactly what has and has not been subjected to a cleaning, properly or improperly. And even then you are bound to miss a few here and there. So, I tend to buy what I like and avoid harshly cleaned (i.e. damaged) coins even if I know I am buying an attractive example that might have been cleaned once or twice.

 

Eduard - a little off topic, but that die crack through "STATES" is very cool. :thumb:

 

I agree with Frank and Doug and bq. I do my best to avoid what I think are harshly cleaned coins. And yes - I know I have some cleaned coins in my collection. Sometimes I feel the tpg's are not consistent. Just my opinion.

 

Eduard,

I think it is important to remember that when it comes to cleaning, some amount is viewed as acceptable by the TPGs, and others amounts are not. And it is rather arbitrary, and really varies by the coin presented. Add to that the fact that the process of assigning a coin the cleaned moniker is subjective (rather than obvjective) and you have a recipe for inaccuracies and difficult to follow "logic"....

As for natural toning, it's really a crapshoot in my opinion.

Also, and I think you'd be the first to admit this, but places like this can really help in one's understanding of these types of issues.

Bottom line: Buy what you like for a price you think is fair, and you can't really go wrong.

Have fun....Mike

 

p.s. I don't have trouble, personally, detecting even subtle cleaning. However, dipping and doctoring have (and I suspect still do) get past me even in-hand.

 

I'm no expert but I can generally detect abrasive cleaning.
But I had a half dime that got body bagged for being cleaned.
Took 10-15 minutes of looking, turning and tilting under good light and my 10x loupe to find the scratches.

When it comes to dipped coins I have to go with my gut feeling.
I ask myself, "Does it look natural?"
This is one reason I don't care for toned coins.
And this is also a reason I much prefer slabbed coins.
I'm going to cover my deficiencies as much as reasonably possible by:
- passing on items that don't seem right.
- accepting the "help" of the major TPGs.