Does this denarius look fishy to you?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Gam3rBlake, Sep 17, 2021.

  1. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Well-Known Member

    What do you guys think? Does this Trajan denarius look fishy to you?

    It just doesn’t feel right to me and I’m curious if you guys agree something is off with it?

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  3. RichardT

    RichardT Well-Known Member

    Why do you suspect it?

    Maybe a fourree. Weight would help as always.
     
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  4. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Well-Known Member

    It’s just that the denarius is supposed to be a highly pure silver coin (at least under Trajan it was since they were ~80% pure during his reign) and this one doesn’t look like it’s made of high purity silver.

    Oh yeah and the weight is 3.21 grams.
     
  5. RichardT

    RichardT Well-Known Member

    Why doesn't it look like high purity silver? Are you taking reference from modern silver coins?
     
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  6. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Well-Known Member

    No of course not. It wouldn’t make sense to compare modern coins to coins that have been around for 2,000 years.

    Im actually comparing it to other Trajan denarii.

    Like this one of mine:

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    However I must say that I am asking this question with full knowledge of everything about the coin. I’m just curious what others think about the coin to see if the information I have about it is easily noticeable to everyone else.
     
  7. gsimonel

    gsimonel Supporter! Supporter

    80% silver also means 20% other stuff.
     
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  8. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    The coin looks fine to me.
     
    Evan Saltis likes this.
  9. IMP Shogun

    IMP Shogun Well-Known Member

    It’s got surface defects that make one think fouree if looking for something but the look of the metal doesn’t make me think fake. If it’s the toning and “find” patina somewhat in tact — that’s preferred by many collectors than the dipped coin. If you know it to be fake you should describe the attributes that identify it as such.

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    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
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  10. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    In other words you are playing with us by asking if we can guess what is on the label you don't show. The coin has been butchered and shows a lot of cleaning scratches. It has some bumps on the surface that could be signs of plating but this period is known for having some problems with the mixture any some bumps like that so either is a possibility. To be certain, you would need to cut it in half but I would prefer you not do that since what I see could be from other things done to the coin rather than being fourree. I once believed the coin below was plated but I am now more toward it having mix problems with copper lumps rather than a full core. I'm not willing to cut it to prove the matter. You should not either. You have already had the coin viewed by someone you trust (a slabber - which one?) so that is why I say you are playing games. If all you want is to prove we are ignorant amateurs, I'll admit that one. We are not a collection of the finest minds in this science and even those who are will sometimes disagree on some points. If you can not deal with that, I suggest you find a different hobby and stop playing games by not disclosing what you have.
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  11. Gam3rBlake

    Gam3rBlake Well-Known Member

    No actually I’m trying to understand.

    I promise I have no intention of trying to make anyone look ignorant or amateurish.

    People regularly tell Ancient coin collectors that buying coins in slabs is bad. Or at the least they say it’s not recommended.

    Yet there are many ancient coins that would be impossible to determine authenticity for anyone below the professional level.

    I shared this coin to see what people thought and whether buying coins in slabs might actually be the correct way to go.

    Don’t get mad about it. If a post doesn’t interest you you can always skip it.

    People play games on here all the time. I’ve seen many, many, many “guess the grade” posts. People should be able to post whatever they want and those interested can participate in the discussion while those with no interest in the discussion can check out other posts they might be more interested in.
     
  12. It looks like it has been through the wars. My initial thoughts was that this has resulted from a very overzealous cleaning attempt, perhaps with too much force and some stronger than appropriate chemicals. I do believe it is ancient, however it is mangled to such an extent that I wouldn't purchase it unless there was a huge discount as I am not knowledgeable enough to know what secrets lie beneath.
     
  13. Oldhoopster

    Oldhoopster Member of the ANA since 1982

    I don't think it's wise to suggest that this member skip over your post. He offers a tremendous amount of knowledge and a willingness to share. He also has great info on his website (spend some time there).
     
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  14. Ryro

    Ryro The last of the Diadochi Supporter

    Yep. It's troll fodder 101.
    Next thing you know they'll say something condescending like
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    I was just trying to understand.
    When just the post before they'd said, "However I must say that I am asking this question with full knowledge of everything about the coin". Oh, they already just did that.
    Pretty predictable and tedious stuff.
    Hey homes, how's that tetradrachm you drove that price up on that was 99.9% yours? troll.
     
  15. AncientJoe

    AncientJoe Supporter! Supporter

    It's hard to tell from the pictures but some of the copper core looks like it is showing near the portrait and the coin as a whole has been through a few rounds with a lawnmower. As fourrees go, the style is nice; clearly the forger had some solid artistic abilities.
     
  16. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    What we still do not have is full disclosure of what was on that slab label. Who called it a fourree? What did that undisclosed expert say about the coin? I have not said that slabs are bad except that they add to the price. That coin is not worth the cost of a low end NGC slab. There are brands of slabs that are as likely to have errors as they are to be correct. If Barry and David said it is plated, I'm interested. If another nameless TGP said something, I could care less. Photos can be deceptive. Games? Still looks that way. I will remind everyone that Coin Talk has a really useful feature called Ignore where you can flag a poster so you do not see their posts. Over the years, I have used it several times and most, if not all, of my Ignores have moved along no longer posting here. I encourage those who find me more trouble than I'm worth to make use of this feature. I have no idea how many CT folks have Ignored me.
     
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  17. Evan Saltis

    Evan Saltis College Dorm Collector Supporter

    Wrong person to suggest that to!

    I would hope absolutely none. But I'm sure some don't like the answers, sometimes.


    I've taken the time to find the actual coin, for anyone who wanted to see what NGC had to say. Contemporary forgery

    Not sure why you didn't post it originally, considering it was like the third result for 'Trajan' on Heritage.

    https://coins.ha.com/itm/roman-impe.../232138-64208.s?ic4=ListView-Thumbnail-071515

    This, definitely was a trap post. I would have ignored by now but I enjoy the dramatics a bit. OP is problematic to say the least.

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    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
  18. DonnaML

    DonnaML Supporter! Supporter

    To be fair, I very much doubt that you've seen them in the Ancients Forum. Because 99.9% of the regular posters here couldn't care less about the "grade" of their coin. And wouldn't need NGC to tell them that they wouldn't want this coin, forgery or not.
     
  19. DonnaML

    DonnaML Supporter! Supporter

    @Ryro, I know you're convinced that Blake is a troll, and I highly respect your opinion, but I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think she is, at least not intentionally. I think she's well-intentioned and tries to create posts that will inspire discussion, and simply isn't "in synch" with a lot of members here
     
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  20. Hrefn

    Hrefn Well-Known Member

    I am not offended by the OP. I like puzzles and quizzes. It is an interesting post.
    Having said that, I tried to make my own determination without looking down the whole thread.
    The style of the coin looks authentic. At 5 o’clock on both the obverse and reverse it looks like the edge of silver plating with a base core. That may be copper showing through near Trajan’s forehead, also.
    I wonder if I would have noticed had the fact that there was a problem with the coin been suggested by the question.
     
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  21. Evan Saltis

    Evan Saltis College Dorm Collector Supporter

    As respectfully as possible, Donna, the Gamer is absolutely a troll, sorry to say.
    Everything from making deals on Collectors Universe, just to relist the item on a buyer, to trying to trip people up here in this thread. Time and time again it's been shown. Just money hungry.

    Part 1 of the V75 fiasco
    Part 2 of the fiasco


    I won't deal with the gamer. Too apt of a description, really.
    I suppose you reap what you sow.
     
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