Does anyone know who sells AT coins?

I was wondering if anyone knows people who sell artificially toned coins? I am trying to get some info to research some of this people and learn a little more on why and what they might be doing to coins and why they sell this coins to unsuspecting new collectors. Thanks :kewl:

 

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I think the answers to your questions are, they do this and sell them because the market is hot. Attractive toning (according to the boys, themselves, ANA), has the capacity to actually increase the market grade and hence value of a coin. Think "eye appeal." Kind of kindergarten, but that's the mantra, these days. Simpler-put, there are collectors and investors who actively seek attractively-toned coins. Whether same are "pigeons" is still open to debate. Actually, IMHO, who cares whether the toning is AT or NT, so long as it looks pretty, and it's not spray paint? That's where I draw the line, anyway, on that issue. FWIW...

 

I agree with that - with one exception, the toning should not hide the luster on the coin. Gotta see the luster - so some really dark toning makes it tought for me.

There are several sellers on ebay who do this, but I am not sure they would admit it. The why is simple - currently there is a premium for toned coins. The key is the eye appeal.

 

So to both of you guys below. It is ok to you that thousands of people are getting ripped off by this AT coin sellers? I mean, if you don't mind ok. But to those collectors who are new and want NT coins, it is a big deal. I can't even believe you both think it's ok as long as it has "eye appeal"? An AT coin never in my opinion has an eye appeal. Any who, I accept your opinions and thank you for them.

 

I agree. However, the range of AT coins is huge. Some are disgusting, where as others look so close to NT, they would likely even fool the TPGs. There are also all kinds of shades of gray as to what constitutes AT. Does intentionally storing a coin in a sulfer rich envelope for several years, and having it develop strong toning over the years make it AT? This really isn't a simple black and white issue in my opinion.

 

And I second you on that exception, Mark. From what I've seen, the guys/gals who are really into toning want to see that luster peeking through...at least, in spots. Without that, they consider these dogs, basically.

 

Rigo, define AT and NT.

 

No - but I can not force someone to understand the difference in the toning. It takes experience to buy these coins raw -PS experience I know I do not have(especially with ebay pictures). I can not remember who said it best - "The toning floats on the luster versus just sitting on the coin". I am sure they can AT coins like that(and I do not know how), but to me that would be okay since the luster remains.

At the same time if you think a flat lusterless ms70(is that the name) blue lincoln is nice - then who am I to begrude you your vision of eye appeal. When a seller lists one of these coins - how do I know the bidder does not just like the coin? I mean look at some of the prices seriously problematic coins bring on ebay - and I don't just mean AT. Even someone I worked with I could not convince to stop paying above spot for ASE's in holders almost as bad as SGS. I hate to see people get caught up in this, but there is only so much one can do.

 

Nice topic rigo. I was fooled into buying AT coin before I knew there was a difference between the two. sellers don't indicate whether their AT or NT. It's not right I say.

 

I once bought a coin "GUARANTEED" to be NT, but once I got the coin in hand there is no way the coin is anything but AT. Sure, there is a guarantee, but there is no way to meet the requirements of the guarantee by getting it graded. Live and, learn to spot AT coins by becoming familiar with the series. Oh well, it's only money!

 

Yikes!!! Another thread on toned coins..lord help us all.:desk:

 

Why do we need those smart comments?
If you don't like a thread move on!!

 

There are lots of eBay sellers that sell AT coins.
I don't buy raw coins of eBay any more because there are way to many dishonest sellers out there. Just search toned coins on ebay and you will find the sellers that have all different coins with all of the same toning pattern.

 

toned coins

I have saved many beautifully toned lincoln pennies from searching through circulated ones. I just put them aside...date doesn't matter. some are 50's, 60's, 70's,80's, 90's and so on...I really like to look at them. some are purple, blue, red...I didn't know there was a calling for them though.

 

There are very few confessions from those doing toning for profit. It would be bad for business. Mostly, there are stories, or stories about stories heard, or a sharp eye that picks out a coin from auction images that used to be slabbed mostly white and now has wild toning and is in another slab.

I tend to avoid these AT/NT threads. I am relatively new on this forum. Let me say that the AT/NT debate is not very interesting to me. What I am more interested in, is how old is the toning the coin. Was it likely that the coin toned 70 years ago, while sitting in a bag with other coins? Or was it likely toned five years ago in a lab by an expert churning out pretty toners by the dozens? For some toning patterns, the results are near identical, the chemistry near identical, the coins near impossible to pick apart.

Toning goes in and out of fashion. Ebay and online imaging were a catalyst in creating a huge market for toners. The scenario that some believe is that lab guys filled the demand and ran to the bank, then as more and more toners get made, and slabbed, demand got satiated, and the cycle ebbed.

I always tell folks to "collect what you like." If a person likes toners, by all means buy them. What that person pays is their business. I'll never argue with a collector about what they like or what they are willing to pay. That is all personal decision making.

 

I've said that for years. AT comes in a lot of different flavors, from 10 seconds of heat to a year in a sulfide envelope.

I rinse all my coins with acetone before storage in an Airtite to remove any traces of water. Sometimes I get a little surprise! Some of the poorly AT'd coins I've bought had the AT removed with acetone and/or xylene. LOL To me, those are the TRUE AT coins. I've never seen natual toning on copper be effected by solvents.

 

Never mind......so naughty

 

coin doctors?

 

Rigo,

Some of the people who are getting ripped off fall should fall under the "caveat emptor" umbrella IMO. People buy coins and don't know the first thing about them. Most AT coins are obvious and low grade crap that can easily be avoided with some basic coin knowledge.

As for collectors wanting NT coins, I understand the desire, but it really is an effort in futility. Doug has pointed out on more occasions than I can count that it is impossible to determine the originality of the toning on some coins. Let me say that again, it is impossible to determine the originality of the toning on some coins. In other words, you won't be able to tell, I won't be able to tell, and the expert graders at PCGS & NGC wont be able to tell. It is kind of like those old commercials, is it real or is it Memorex. For these beautiful coins, you have to accept the possibility that even though they might be NT, they could very easily be AT.

I agree with the philosophy that eye appealing AT coins are acceptable, becuase you won't be able to identify them as AT. As for your statement about an AT coin never having eye appeal, I would like you to prove it. Please tell which of the following war nickels you find unattractive.




BTW, This is a trap. You know there is an AT coin in the group, but can you identifiy it? If not, feel free to say they are all attractive, you won't hurt my feelings!

PS: In answer to your original question, I do not know any coin doctors.

Paul

 

You are right, it is only one of the most important and complicated topics in numismatics, we are probably just wasting our time discussing it.