I hope folks are not tired of this Morgan, because I can't get enough! I just want opinions because I have found with different light angles, more features can be seen. I just can't shake the fact that I see arrows across Morgans face.
I think those are just slide marks and toning. They are in the wrong area of the coin to be clashed arrows. In fact I've never seen a clashed arrow, that would be really cool
Becky if you get a chance, please take a look at the star on my error post. I cant see how these are random lines.
Those might be gouges. If your Morgan has a 20 degree rotated reverse on it, then it might be the wheat stalks. Check it out. Let me go back and look at the clash again.....
I never get tired of looking at Morgans! If those were clash marks, it would be from the wreath on the reverse. The curve doesn't seem to match though. I agree with Becky about slide marks and toning. If the dies had rotated at any degree, the arrows still wouldn't protrude enough to go in front of Liberty's face. They would be on her face, and not in front. The marks on the star and in other areas are die gouges/scracthes. They may also be from threads on the master die or hub when the working die was made. Leroy Van Allen won't give new VAM designations for this type of characteristic, but he does use them as die markers. I got a package from him last week with a new VAM discovery. 1902-O VAM 50 was identified with a die gouge at the base of the 2 and an unknown reverse die. The coin has similar thread-like impressions, but it's only being used as a die marker. If you think you might have enough for a new discovery and/or sub-variety of the VAM 20, you can always send him the coin. You just have to include funds for the return S&H&I. pic2 pic3 text
nesvt- It is so good to hear from you again! How can I find out how early in mintage this coin was struck? I just wonder that with so many combinations of errors( do you call them errors?) that they would have tried to correct these issues for later strikes.
Good question. I wish I had an answer. For some of the VAMs, there are sub-varieties that usually go in order (1A, 1B, 1C). Sometimes Leroy will mention in the description that a particular variety came after another, and explain why (1st without a clash, 2nd with a clash, 3rd with the clash polished away). A good example is the 1921-S Thornhead series (link). As far as I know, there are no sub-varieties for the 1878-P 8TF VAM 20. They may all have the same characteristics, some of them may have been polished away later in the die state, or some may have disappeared as the die was worn. If I remember correctly, your coin had a very strong strike, but was also clashed. I would guess it wasn't the first, but was early in the life of the dies. It's a guess. You could always seek out more VAM 20's and compare. Some folks that focus on the 1921-D die cracks will collect a series of the same VAM and watch the crack get larger and larger.
Thanks nesvt-- Is there a VAM underground that has a website? or do I have to buy the book and cd? All over the internet I find spotty articles about VAMS, but when it comes to a certain date or coin, besides here there is no way I can see to chat with someone. Dont get me wrong, this place RULES! I just want to get down to the nitty-gritty.
VAM underground. That was funny. The first place is the VAM book. The last one is the 4th edition. You have to get the "supplemental updates" too. It contains several years of recent discoveries and changes to the VAM book. I've seen the VAM book on eBay. The updates can be purchased from Leroy. Address and costs can be found on the ashmore site that I'll list below. There are several other books out too. The 1921-D book by Rob Joyce is one of my favorites. His site is listed below too. There's the Top 100 book by Dr. Michael Fey. The Hot 50 book by Jeff Oxman is out of print. New book on the SuperCD (clashed dies) by Mark Kimpton. Many others. Several CDs are available. Some include attribution wizards. The ashmore site has text updates, photo updates, Leroy's address, and prices for the updates. link Rob Joyce's site has info on the 1921-D's and many other varieties. link VAMlink was one of the original sites. It is or was being rebuilt. I haven't checked in a while. link Dr. Fey's site is here . There are other resources. The SSDC (society of silver dollar collectors) is great. There is a VAMe newsletter that comes via email and is free. The new VAMview lists actual realized sale prices. There are great articles in it as well... from famous people, like Becky! Dr. Fey publishes a quarterly price guide for the Top 100 Morgans. I know I've forgotton many other resources, but that's a start.
From what I see if those are indeed arrows they are not from the Morgan reverse. The Morgan arrows have straight edges on the arrowheads and those "ghost" arrowheads are anything but straight plus they are way too long.
Ol silver- That is exactly something I have wondered. Was this an experimental Die? Was this the trial? I dont know. I just know the more angles I put the light, or change from more or less lighting, I find many different features on this coin. I have a good many coins and I can try anything, and still see the same stuff. I just wonder if this one was hit,pressed, clashed or what a few extra times.
Still on the hunt. What (I) think I am seeing may not be, but it is just too coincidental that these tone lines or shapes would resemble the arrows. I just believe the impressions made across the face are like the inside out of what is on the back.
