Difficulty In Collecting: Ancients VS. U.S. Coins

In talking with my good friend Ardatirion, we came to talking about challenges and difficulties of collecting coins.
The challenges in collecting Ancient coins and United States coins.

Now, most people would write off United States coins right away, and say that Ancients are so hard to collect, and there are too many years, and too many things to know. While this is true there is another aspect to collecting that people often leave out. Supply and demand.

With Ancient coins, there is little demand, disbursed between the amount of collectors that collect Ancient coins. The prices are lower, there is not enough demand for the coins, and there are quite a bit of the same coin to go around, but only a hand full of nice ones. "Nice" in this case, is a grade, words are used to describe Ancient coins.
Ardatirion's grading system goes as follows:

Bad
Good
Nice
Perfect

While there might be more good nice ones to go around, the perfect ones are still out there, and not at that much of a higher cost, most of the time.

With U.S. coins you have grading companies, they grade the coin for you, and you look up the grade with some kind of resource that tells you fair market value, and wholesale value, and you decide what price you want to pay. (Heritage, Numismedia. etc.)

Also with U.S. coins you have different dates, varieties of those dates, and mint marks, varieties of those mint marks, and different "errors" in the coins, that are highly collectible and very expensive. You have key dates as well, and there is a lot of demand for those key dates, due to the amount of collectors, thus raising the price through the roof.

While with Ancient coins, you have key dates, that are less expensive, due to there being less collectors, but you have to have knowledge behind the collecting to be able to buy the right coin (appearance, authenticity), at the right price. There are also different varieties to some degree, but I wouldn't imagine there being more, than what there are of U.S. coinage.

So with this being said, which do you think is harder to collect, United States or Ancient Coinage?
If you have another point not mentioned please do point it out, I'd like to hear all opinions on the subject.

 

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I'm Ardatirion, and I approve this message.

Without a doubt, I think ancients are more challenging. US tends to be more expensive, though. With regards to the varieties - there are certainly more with ancients. But its a matter of significance. A different letter placement would be a major variety on a quarter or half dollar, but may not even bear mentioning on a sestertius.

 

A sesta-what now?

Alrighty, cool, question answered on the whole variety thing. When it comes to significance, are you saying that there are some that are U.S. coins, or Ancient coins that are predominantly more insignificant?
In other words, is the percentage of varieties that aren't as important greater in Ancients or United States?
Are the varieties more expensive and harder to get in Ancients, versus United States coins?

 

The thing with ancients is, since all dies were carved by hand, EVERY die is a different variety! Now, if you're looking for a specific variation - that can be needle in the haystack sort of difficult.

 

And even with technology, it doesn't help you any, with all the varieties/Vam's/DD's that we have in United States coinage. There are probably varieties in both that we haven't discovered yet.
What did you mean by your last comment exactly? Are you saying that the specific varieties in Ancients aren't available and out there quite yet? Or are they so rare, that they haven't surfaced, and are they dormant in the big macho man's Ancient coin collection?

 

Sort of depends on where you live. Here in the USA your exposed to a zillion coin shows and almost all USA coins. For example at a coin show today, only one dealer had other than USA coins. At a coin show last Sunday where there was about 75 dealers, again only one with non USA coins and only two with currency. I've got about 5 or more coin stores in my area and none carry other than USA coins.
So it's not necessarily rarity, cost, quantity minted but just where are those others being sold? I suspect if it wasn't for forums like this and the internet, many people in the USA wouldn't know that other countries even have their own money.
I still remember talking about coins not to long ago with a group of people at Christmas. I mentioned Roman Coins and one person said no one had coins that far back. There were no mchines to use them in. He wasn't kidding.

 

So if we were in Rome would more people know that coins go that far back?
I mean, yes I see what you are saying, but I would think that the United States would know more about coins than any other location. Is there a coin knowledge capital of the world?
Are the places that made the coins in Ancient times, more knowledgeable on the subject?

 

I've got a full dance card in regard to US issues. I can't even begin to think of adding ancients to my collection. But I must say, I'm truly impressesd with the "ancient" guys on this forum. Ard, you da man......:smile

 

"omnes viae romam dukunt" (repalce k with c in the last word)



...just had to say that! :goofer:

 

in my opinion, i'd say they are about equal to collect. as you said, there are common coins and rare coins in both, and there are cheap coins and expensive coins in both. you need knowledge to effectively collect either one. and patience. once you have both, i feel it's equally hard (or easy) to collect either.

 

Availability seems to be a lot easier for US stuff. It's more recent. Collectors are more in tune with the past 200-300 years of history than the past 2000. IMO, there's simply too much of a detachment from whats considered our modern time period, for the vast majority to have a big interest. What's considered official recorded history is only a couple hundred years old. It's harder to relate to ancient culture with so little general knowledge. Collectors are few and far between. Not as mainstream.

Yeah, I'd say ancients would be harder to collect. I do have an appreciation for the collectors though. Can't help but get a kick out of the lingo that's thrown around occasionally. It goes to show how much there is to learn and how much you really don't know.

 

I really like a lot of the ancients but I am put off because I hear that a lot on the market are very good forgeries.

 

The trick there is that when you're starting out, stick with reputable dealers and stay away from Ebay. For places online, take a look at Forvm, VCoins, and Bargain Bin Ancients. Stick with those guys and others that experienced people tell you about and stay away from eBay until you get a good feel for this stuff, and you should be fine.

 

Gotta love this little cruds!

 

I suspect that is a big YES. Ask the average person what type of items were used in America before it was even the USA. Most probably would say Wampum, animal pelts, the bartering system, etc. This is due to almost everyone in the USA sees movies, programs on TV or reads magazines about the old West or our past here. In Rome, Germany, Poland, etc. people there are more used to studying thier own past, not ours. This would include previous currency.
I've worked with people from all over the World. When coins come up they usually end up giving me coins from thier country. Most know a real lot of thier countries past monitary systems. Yet if you ask them about ours, they know very little. And since these individuals are rather on the higher educational brackets, I suspect they are more representative of people everywhere.
My Son spent some time at the University of Krakow for a few semesters. While there he found that although most people knew English, very few had the slightest idea of our monitary system but well knew all about thier own present and past.

 

No different than U.S. Coins mate. People are tricked all the time into buying fake Morgans and Trade Dollars.

I guess that does make sense. Priorities of knowledge of past coinage would reside in where the people live. Their location first, then other's.

 

Yo yo, no more responses?

 

Travis - For me, and I suspect many U.S. collectors, there isn't the same connection and interest in collecting ancients. Think about what kids learn in H.S. - much more of an emphasis on U.S. history than Ancient Civilizations. So, what U.S. citizen can't at least relate to the dead Presidents on our coins?

So, from that vantage point, if you want to collect ancients, I suspect one has to do some research to understand what one is collecting. In that way, I think it is harder than collecting U.S. coins (beyond learning all the grading, varieties, etc.). I also think it is great for U.S. residents to learn more about history that's not their own!

Besides U.S. type, I collect late 18th century British Provincial Tokens. I could make that leap because I could relate to the same language and metal used (copper in most instances) was similar to the early U.S. cents. Of course, to understand what I was collecting, I purchased several reference books to give me a fuller appreciation for the stories/themes represented. The problem I have now is that am splitting resources between the two and that's a constant push/pull. Right now, I want to make more progress on the U.S. type set front!

So, to wrap my minor contribution to your thread, I'll post a Conder token that is pic "dedicated to the collectors of medals and coins"! See, regardless of what you collect, it's cool to see something inscribed talking directly to you.

 

"Dedicated to collectors of medals and coins". Has a nice ring to it. :smile

Nice conder Cat'........:smile

 

I like all the options, themes, and directions I can go in with ancients.