Did Santa bring me a Morgan Surprise DD??

Please tell me that after all these years, I may have found something! This Morgan is a Christmas present from my Wife. I then looked under the microscope and hmmmmmm could this be a Merry Holiday? Please give me some input, and let me know what I am looking at.
Thanks

 

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I'm betting that it is a VAM....what is the date and mintmark??

Speedy

 

It is a 1878 8tf no mint mark

 

Interesting find, happy VAM hunting. Is the coin slabbed/graded? Just curious b/c even under that magnification, there doesn't appear to be much in the way of wear.

 

That looks like a very nice coin! Congrats on such a nice gift. I wonder what color my tie will be this year?

As you probably know, all Morgan and Peace dollars are VAMs. The VAM designation just identifies the die pair used.

Do you have a picture of the entire coin? The best place to start with the identification is the base of the wings.

I'm not very good with 1878-P 8TF, but I have my books in front of me.
Most of the 78's have LIBERTY doubled. Some have double stars. Need to put all of the pieces together.
Again, it looks very nice!

Edit- that star looks tripled to me.

 

Give me just a minute to get the camera and coin together.

 

Right now, I'm leaning toward a VAM 18. It's the only one with a large shift in the date, and tripled stars, and doubled LIBERTY.

I need to check the updates too....

 

I have not looked the coin over completely, but you better believe I will!

please let me know as much as you can. If you want more photos, I will deliver.

 

Here are a few more, they are from the back. I think the (A) does it for me.

 

I looked on the internet and found that PCGS had intended to start cert. of VAM's in Sep. of 2005! How can I find out when this one was graded? Do you think I should send it back through?

As far as I can tell, almost everything on this coin is doubled or trippled in some way.

 

I'm 99% sure yours was graded this year...why??...I don't see the PNG logo on the back of the slab and this is the first year in a long time that they didn't have that...and this isn't an older slab.

That is up to you.... most VAMS I see aren't worth much over the value of the coin but then there are some worth $$$....if you want the VAM listed then sure...if it doesn't matter much take a sticker and write the VAM number on it and put it on the back of the slab!

Speedy

 

Right now I am having trouble understanding which VAM it is. As far as I can tell there are many different VAMS on this coin. I think it has an open nostrel.

 

what is a VAM??

 

Here you go... (better than I could explain it)
http://www.rjrc.com/vams/vam_defined.htm

 

Thanks samjimmy, What do you think I have here?

 

Great close-ups!!! I think it's an 18A. PCGS isn't labeling ALL VAMs. They do the Hot 50, Top 100, and Top 50 Peace dollars, and a few others. The complete list is here.

It's up to you about getting it re-labeled. The big value is in the Top 100 and Hot 50 coins. However, if it's a VAM 18, it is on the list.

Before I forget... I'm not an expert. Only been collecting VAMs for a couple of years. I usually focus on the 1921-D's.

Your coin looks clashed. The 18A is a clashed version of the 18 that shows a partial N from IN near LIBERTY's neck.

There is a VAM 18 on eBay if you want to compare. link.

I'm guessing VAM 18 or 18A for a few reasons. Most of the 1878's have a doubled LIBERTY. Some are left, right, up, down. The picture in the VAM book matches your close-up photo. Many have doubled dates; however the dates are doubled on the top or bottom ... yours shows a strong shift. Sames with the stars.

Here is the description for the VAM 18-
18 II/I 2 - A2/A1a I04 R-4
Obverse II/I 2 - Doubled LIBERTY shifted up and left. Doubled E, P, L, U, R, S, and M with large shift in date and all stars on right. All left stars tripled.
Reverse A2/A1a - Second 8 TF design type, A2, with hooked beak and I of IN away from top of eagle's right wing reimpressed over first 8 TF design type, A1. Doubled inside of wreath, NE of ONE, AR of DOLLAR. Two extra small feathers added on eagle's right and partial one on left side between leg and bottom of wing. Top of wreath overpolished so that tip of leaf appears to be an extra berry on the left side but shadow of leaf remains on field of coin. Eagle's lower beak and tongue are doubled. Doubled strike on tops of letters on some coins. Top arrow head and shaft doubled.

VAM 18A-
18A II/I 2 · A2/A1a (Doubled Date, Clashed Obverse n) (180) I-4 R-6
Obverse II/I 2– Clashed die with faint partial incuse n of In from reverse next to Liberty head neck.

link to photo of 18A

I can't copy the photo in the VAM book, but if you take a close-up photo of the bottom of the eagle's right wing (viewer's left), I can compare with the image in the book.

 

I have a lot of research to do!

NESVT-- When I saw your avetar I was looking for posts in the past about morgan errors, and I told my wife you probably new something about morgans. Then you reply to my post!! You are the coolest :smile I thank you for your help, and if you can provide any more info I would be greatful.

The pix are cool and I am having so much fun! I have always wanted to get right on the coin and now I can. So I am going through all the coins in my safe so all can see any errors I have or thought I had.

Also one question, PCGS listed this coin at about $170.00 Do you think it will increase in value?

 

You're welcome. Thanks for sharing the coin. It's a beauty.

Not sure about the value. The collectors that I know seem to collect in "groups". Most people try to complete a Top 100 or Hot 50 set, so the values can be monitored from frequent sales. I get a Top 100 value sheet a few times each year. There are other collectors that focus on 1878-P 8TF or 7/8TF Morgans.

If it's a VAM 18, it had an I-4 R-4. If it's an 18A with the partial clashed N, it's I-4 R-6.

Not sure if you've seen the (I)interest and (R)rarity numbers before. They get assigned when the discovery is made.
I-1 normal die
I-2 minor varaitions
I-3 significant variations; interest to collectors
I-4 major variations with universal interest to collectors
I-5 outstanding variation representing the best example of its type.

R-1 common - tens of millions
R-2 several millions
R-3 scarce - hundreds of thousands
R-4 very scarce - tens of thousands
R-5 rare - several thousands
R-6 very rare - several hundred
R-7 extremely rare - few tens
R-8 unique or nearly unique - few

There is an 1878-P 8TF attribution guide available. Jeff Oxman wrote the book, and there's a CD Wizard version developed by John Baumgart. The CD will walk you through questions and determine the exact VAM based on your responses. I got mine from here (unfortunately I don't have it with me right now).

 

If you need any more pix to identify what it is let me know.

 

Open Nostril is in the TOP 50! Of course I would want this to fall under the best category possible, What does this mean that so many different doubles, tripples, ect. are on this Morgan? I have always searched my pockets for a treasure, and kept a small collection. But this was one of our more expensive purchases. Is it possible that PCGS could miss all of this?

What do I Do?