Details make a difference

Sometimes a small difference makes a big difference. I recently noted on CT a coin of Postumus where on the reverse the scepter of Serapis was vertical instead of transverse and the auction value increased from about 100 euros for a coin with a transverse scepter to 4600 euros for the same type with a vertical scepter.
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/postumus-and-liberty.288869/#post-2610835
That level of attention to detail is something I expect in US coins (because they have so little of genuine interest to care about), but not in ancients.

Here is an example. Which of these two would you prefer?


Caracalla. 196-198-217. Struck 200-201.
SEVERI PI I AVG FIL
Caracalla in military dress holding Victory on globe and reversed spear. Captive at feet left.
SR 6749, page 512. No photo. RIC Caracalla 45 "struck 199-200"
Hill 413 Struck "199" BMC 172 (for S+C) page 187 plate 3.15 "199-201"


Obv: ANTONINVS AVGVSTVS.
Laureate and cuirassed bust right, wearing breastplate decorated with gorgoneion.
Rev: SEVERI PII AVG FIL.
Caracalla standing left, holding crowning Victory on globe and spear; to left, bound captive seated left.
RIC 45.

To me, they would have about the same value. But, others find them quite different. Tomorrow, when some of you have had a chance to chime in, I will continue this post with observations about value.

 

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Of the two I like the first better. I suspect the second coin brings a higher price because of the breastplate with gorgoneion.

 

I like the second best, of course for the breastplate.

 

I'm with Mat. The second has more eye appeal possibly because of the breastplate, but I like the detailed reverse better as well.

 

Another factor I would point out is that the second one looks to be of good silver, while the top one is typical. Second is also Laodicea ad Mare.

 

The first example was engraved by a very skilled celator at the Rome mint. It is of excellent artistic quality. Look at the detail on the captive on the reverse, for example. It's of debased silver and lackluster, however. It's boring.

But the second example, possibly from the Laodike mint, has a more cartoonish style but it comes to life! And look at Caracalla's armor! The whole shoulder is visible and the gorgoneion on the breast plate seals the deal.

It's not the gorgoneion the collector is paying a premium for, it's the mint.

 

The type is not listed for Laodicea and it is not appropriate for it to be called RIC 45 which is a Rome number. I can't say I have seen that style bust for any Laodicea so I see how someone would pay extra for it.

 

Definitely the second for the reasons already stated.

 

I like the first coin a great deal better due to the style. The portrait of the second coin just looks off, particularly the eyes. I would not pay a premium for the second coin and I agree that small changes making big premiums in ancients is ridiculous.

In fact I would be willing to bet that some of the most common issues of ancients is still rarer than most rare US coins. To me condition and style should drive the value of ancients and not rare types or details. JMHO

 

I was once told by a very know-it-all expert that coins of Septimius other than from Rome should be ignored because they had bad style. I have a few from Rome but have always preferred the Eastern coins. There are those who collect for fine art, those who collect for history and those who collect for whatever reason they please. It is all OK.

Certainly, we try to make that point all the time. It makes no difference that there are only a few of a coin if no one wants them. I have a number of coins that exist in fewer specimens than will fit in one hand but sell for less than ancients that exist by the hundreds of thousands (how many owls are there???). If no one cares, you will have trouble selling the only one that exists. There are a million types of ancients and no one is planning to complete the set. Rarity means nothing; supply vs. demand is everything.

 

I have a feeling I'm "supposed" to prefer the second coin, because the first coin really grabs me in terms of style and strike. The second coin shows some typical signs of die wear, and that might be where some of the detail went. Without knowing the source of the pictures, I wouldn't speculate as to whether the color is accurate (therefore, whether any conclusion can be drawn about the metallic composition).

If it wasn't already clear, I would say I'd prefer the first coin. If I'm only going to have, say, one Caracalla, then I want the best style and strike I can get.

 

for the same price, i'll go with the first...details look a bit sharper. i think i'd even pay a bit more for the first (not much).

 

I like the portrait on the second example.

 

My experience with Severans is quite limited, but I've observed to myself before that bust varieties like the one seen on the second coin are very rare on Imperial issues of Septimius and his sons. This one is very nicely rendered and the coin in good condition. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see it commanding a significant premium. I prefer it for that reason, too.

 

I like the style of the first one as well

 

Second one's obverse and first one's reverse!

 

I started this thread after the second coin closed in the Naumann auction:
https://www.biddr.ch/auctions/numismatiknaumann/browse?a=94&c=1732&l=83701

I had had the first coin up for sale on my website at $69 for a long time with no bites, so I took it down because, after thinking about it, that coin was worth more than that to me. Then the Naumann coin came along. 1100 euros, plus 12% plus 3% if paid by PayPal. Wow! Someone wanted that coin!

I think TIF and Doug helped explain it. The auction noted "Attractive portrait and interesting bust type rarely seen from the front" and "Laureate and cuirassed bust right, wearing breastplate decorated with gorgoneion." But, as Doug noted, it is not really RIC 45 because it is not from the Rome mint, rather Laodicea, which makes it unlisted.

So, an eastern-mint Severan specialist has reason to put a premium on the second. It surprises me the premium is that much--more than 10-fold--and it surprises me even more that not only one, but at least two people wanted that coin at more than 1000 euros.

 

I collect Probus coins from Lugdunum. The busts with imperial mantle and eagle tipped sceptre are common from the majority of the mints for Probus and are listed on a large number of varieties at Lugdunum. These types do carry a huge premium though. You can get one from Cyzicus in EF for less than $50 but one from Lugdunum wull set you back well in excess of Eur 1,000 and often approaching 2,000. I doubt I will ever own one.

I collect eastern denarii of Septimius Severus and a cuirassed bust here also carries a huge premium as do left facing busts. These can be anything from 10x to 20x the price. I don't have any of either.

I don't think that the collecting pool for either of these series is massive but there are collectors with far deeper pockets than have a passing interest.

 

IMO coins like the second one should be left for specialists who understand what it is that makes it special while they make poor selections for someone wanting just one Caracalla. Lately I have been seeing more and more special bust Severans selling for high prices. Some buyers may be specialists an some may be people who figure any coin that costs more is better than one that costs less. The seller estimating the coin for 100 euros suggests to me a professional not worthy of the name but he was saved by two bidders who really wanted the coin and had enough money to back up their desire. To me, the coin would be nice to have but my interest probably drops out at 2-3x rather than 10x. There are hundreds of special coins and I know I will not have them all. On the other hand, there are special coins that I am willing to pay more for. That is what makes an auction and auction.

Since Martin mentioned it, I'll show two coins. One was $35 (1993) while the other was $75 (1991). Neither is particularly common (the Fortuna as Pietas is less than an everyday occurrence) and I know which one Specialist Martin would rather have but most of you wanting just one coin would really be better off with the right facing one which is in better condition and a nice, typical example of what it is. I would not sell either one for what I paid but I suspect it will be a while before I find another $75 lefty. They are hard to overlook compared to a different bust style.



The most recent left facer sold by CNG was not the nicest and one of the cheaper examples. I found several in past CNG sales and all had different reverses. Two were within ten years. A specialist lefty set of all possible reverses will not be easy.
https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=109204 2007
https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=205679 2012

Leave them for specialists, please.

 

I always wonder how much this second group who only know a particular coin is rare from the auction description or estimate impact the final price of some of these specialist coins. I talked to a collector a few months ago who wanted an Alexander tet and spent a ton on one because the auction house said it was a rare variant and he felt like that made it a good investment, even though he didn't have a copy of Price to consult and barely seemed to be aware that there were posthumous and lifetime issues. I was a bit flabbergasted but I'm sure there are more like him out there and it makes some of the auction results I see make a lot more sense I suppose.