After seeing a friend's collection last year, I was really interested to try coin collecting myself. To avoid too many rookie mistakes, I did a little preliminary research and browsed around the internet (including here) to see what I was getting myself into. As a semi-outsider to the hobby, I thought I'd share the results and insights learned. My first project was to round up a set of silver Chinese pandas. I figured it was a good test case... relatively small set size and not too expensive. Of course they are absolutely gorgeous as well. I picked up a few other odds and ends along the way as I saw them, but I wanted to keep my initial focus small and defined. Although I am pleased with the final results, the road to get there was depressing and disheartening for a few reasons. * Lack of good local dealers and online storefronts. It has been repeatedly said that the best way to buy is local, via dealers or shows. And my experience would seem to confirm this. But if you don't have that network in your region, it's an uphill climb. Which pushes you by necessity towards online dealers. And apparently the MO for coin storefronts is: "good web interface, good inventory, good pricing... choose any two" With a few purchasing exceptions, I never felt like I got a good experience with purchasing online. * Counterfeiting is a drag and undermines trust in your own collection. I understand this series specifically is more prone to counterfeiting than most, and I accepted that prior to my first purchase. But I did not expect counterfeiting operations to be so sophisticated and so pervasive. And while I purchased only from highly lauded dealers, the fact that it is out there puts a certain level of mistrust in every potential purchase. * (Related to above) Ebay is (still) a hive of scum and villainy, giving the hobby a bad name. I knew this going in, didn't end up buying from them, but it bears special emphasis. It did generate a great anecdote though: Looking at an auction, seller was a high (2000+) feedback professional dealer who owned a coin shop. Stock photo looked fishy and I google searched to match it to a known counterfeit. Curious, I emailed the seller for clarification, as it seemed strange to see a high end professional hawking such a bad forgery. His response was rather indignant, knowing he had been caught, saying to me "it's okay to imply that its genuine, so long as I don't explicitly use the word genuine." Right. * Upsurge in PM prices are a barrier to entry. When looking for a certain piece, I came across an article from just 18 months ago, touting the general asking price of that piece as 1/3 to 1/2 of the current asking price. Really demoralizing to know that you're paying double or triple the price compared to your fellow collectors because the PM market has irrevocably exploded. * Slabs are bulky and cumbersome. If I can get over the price, I am thinking of doing the silver panda proofs next. But the fact that so many are slabbed adds difficulty/expensive, because I don't want slabbed ones. I get that it's a "standard" of the hobby, but I find them bulky and unattractive. It is more like getting a picture of a coin than the coin itself. Anyway, I'm just ranting at this point. But I thought I'd give a little of my perspective from the outsider. Here's a picture of my (near) finalized collection, which I think looks GREAT!
I understand your greif. Just getting in to the hobby and hearing over and over about be carefull who you buy from does put a bit of mistrust into you. I think that if you find the right group of people to surround youeself with and the right group of dealers, you will make it out ok. BTW, your set does look great
It does look nice but IMO, you're begging someone to steal them. Security concerns is another negative you should have added to your list. Somebody's always getting robbed on here. Even if nobody knew you collected and you had a random, "smash and grab" home invasion, they would rip that off the wall and be gone in a flash. It's an unfortunate reality we have to live with. My only other comments are that not everybody on ebay is a scammer. The good sellers are going strong and it shows. PM prices are going nowhere but up. Where they're currently sitting is most likely a gift. Take advantage of it as much as you can, while you can. Its called inflation. In reality, the metals aren't going anywhere. It just takes more dollars to buy them. I recommend you learn to like slabs. They're not that bad. They can actually protect you and the seller, and maybe even from your own family some day. I prefer them.
Finding and joining a local coin club helped me quite a bit. I have to admit that I wasn't a very active member but the folks were genuine and very pleasant to visit and share with.
That is a great set of silver pandas. You seem to highlight the negative aspects, but I am glad to hear that you are now pleased with the results. Enjoy. TC
(1) I know what you mean about local dealers and no major shows in my area. But as for dealing online - well I probably have 30 sellers book marked. I actually find the hunt for the perfect coin for the collection to be fun. Now I do not about Pandas, but it can be months before a coin I want in the condition I expect to show up. Patience is a key. It is also one of the reasons I have multiple sets going. (2) Counterfeiting is a drag and I do not worry about it too much - mainly because I trust my dealers. I am never going to be as good as they are - not that I don't try, but if someone ever perfects it then it might become an issue. This is where slabs help - true they are bulky, but do provide a little reassurance. (3) Yep - can't argue there. I do more looking than buying. I really do not recall the last raw coin I bought off there - but caution is certainly the key. (4) The only thing I can say there is - what will panda collectors be saying in 3 years? At the same time - to me collecting is fun and while I want to get the best possible prices I am not expecting to make money off of it. At the same time - I did really good a year or two ago when I sold all my bullion that I collected for 20 years. Only time will tell. (5) They do make some displays for slabs. I don't mind them, but I do like the feel and looks of my albums. I can understand what you are saying. I keep most of my slabs in eagle albums. Good point about security - but that is why I have insurance on them if they manage to beat all my security measures. To me the fun of collecting comes when you complete a goal or a set. It sounds like you are doing the right things so sit back, relax and enjoy the accomplishment.
Congratulations on the set. Ya' shouldda seen the problems we used to have. You wouldn't have been able to assemble a comparable set not long ago. Even simple things were very difficult before the grading companies and the internet. Welcome to the hobby. If you're like many of us it'll grow on you.
I liked your approach. But I would have done MS69 Pandas all graded by the same company. It's hard to find Pandas locally and this graded would make it easy to get them online and the quality would still be there plus at 69 your not paying much of a premium at all for the slab. And personally that is way cool having them on the wall but as said above theives will see them so slabbed in the SDB is what I would have done. Either way your almost done now. So what's next?
Yes, as stated above, It looks beautiful, but I would not wish to hang 500 bucks of raw silver on the wall. It's petty, shiny, and valuable, even the dumbest thief in the world would know to pick that first.
Howdy Apples - Welcome to the Forum !! I enjoyed your post, and yes your collection does look great ! But rather than the security concerns that others have mentioned - I have a quite different concern. What is that collection going to look like in a few years ? First of all, it's hanging exposed in your house. Exposed to all airborne contaminants, all of the cooking oils and grease that is put into the air inside your house every time you fix dinner. All of the gases put into the air by your heating system. All of the humidity changes that take place in your home day after day, year after year. All of the stuff put into the air everytime you/your wife uses hairspray, spray deoderant, air freshener, furniture polish or spray/squirt cleaners. Then you have that cardboard display, the wood frame and its finish, the paint on the wall etc etc. Yup, all of that stuff, and a whole lot more, is getting on your coins - day after day. Now forget about somebody stealing them as that could happen but is unlikely. But what are those coins going to look like next year ? Think you'll still like them ? Sorry to add an even more depressing aspect - but that is reality.
Shoot Doug, now you got be depressed. I may have to go searching for self contained breathing apparatus.....
The ride to get there had its share of bumps, but the final result I am very happy with. Some of the challenges I underestimated, and found somewhat disheartening, which provoked my 'rant'. In retrospect I think the experience gained was valuable. Just goes to show that even with a little bit of prior research, the best knowledge is gained by doing, not reading. Obviously, if I am posting here, I am not giving up. As for the subject of theft, I thought about that before making the frame, and I am okay with the risk for a few reasons. First, the piece is covered under my existing home insurance policy. Second, the scope of the collection is fairly small, and nothing in there is extremely rare or irreplaceable. Thirdly, I am of the opinion that a collection is something to be seen and enjoyed, not hidden or locked away. If a house-wide theft did occur, I would probably have bigger security concerns to worry about than a single frame. Most household TV's, furniture, and appliances cost more. The subject of air contamination is a bit more worrisome. I am glad someone mentioned it, so I can think about it further. Probably not visible in my pictures, each coin in the frame is still in its original hard-plastic holder from the factory. I had assumed that would be sufficient protection, but in retrospect, maybe not. Great point, worthy of my time to investigate. So where do I go from here? As I mentioned earlier, I am thinking of doing the panda proof series next, but I also think the silver Britannia series looks great. Trying to focus on smaller series to keep learning. Thanks for the feedback everyone, I don't post often, but I enjoy watching and listening to this community almost daily.
As noted and I hope you don't have a lot of people over for anything. You would be amazed at how those coins you have on display can turn into a million dollars as the story gets retold over and over. And as for slabs. Imagine if you stick to all slabs and end up with several thousand coins. You'll need to buy a house just for the slabs.
OPPPS, I too forgot to say WELCOME TO THE FORUMMMMMMMMMM. He may sound overly stating polutions in your home but one thing he did forget and it may be he doesn't smoke cigaretts or cigars or a pipe. I've been to people's house that do smoke. I used to ride in a smoker car on a commuter train. And, before a doctor said Cancer, I too used to smoke. I noticed on the commuter train cars all the Chrome was yellow. Much of the other people's houses I visited where smoking was prevelant, walls too were sort of yellow. After the Cancer, I started to really clean my house too and found everything had that same yellow staining. Guess it's not to noticable on Copper coins though. Hopefully you nor anyone allowed into your home does smoke or those coins too will eventually look yellow. Let alone that Cancer stuff. And too as to a method of toning down cleaned coins, I always recommend allowing them to sit on the inside of a kitchen window sill. You would be amazed at what is in the air in your kitchen.
Well, you're just starting out. You may be able to say that now, but give it a few years. I've got a 46" Sony Bravia on the wall. I've got 2 grand in it alone. Forget the rest of the home theater system. I've got $1k deductible on my home's insurance. No, I don't want somebody to steal it but if they take that, it's pretty easy to find another one. I'll take my $1k insurance money and go get a newer, better one. I tend not to worry about the household TVs, furniture and appliances. Unless they come in with a moving crew, it's a little hard for one guy to run down the street with that value under their arm. Let alone, 'unnoticed'. And a lot easier to replace. A nicely framed set of Pandas on the other hand....? Which in all likelihood your home insurance will NOT cover since that is optional for extra on every policy I've ever heard of. And even if it did, you probably have a 500 to 1000 deductible too. Guess, what? If they get stolen, you're going to eat it. I understand your idea. I"m just trying to help you realize the full facts. I'm not saying you can't leave some stuff out. But I wouldn't want to leave anything out in a high traffic area or anything you weren't willing to lose. It's just a warning. Whatever you're comfortable with based on where you live. Even if the odds of anything getting stolen are very minuscule, why tempt fate?
Uh oh... the insurance broker in me is coming out... 2 warnings on that. 1. It is in your policy that you will take all necesary steps to ensure that if a break in occurs that these wouldn't be as easy to grab off your wall as the clock next to them. You must take responsibility to prevent the risk. If they found out you just figured that if it was stolen off the wall that you'd take the insurance money to buy a enw set, they would not likely give you a pay out. Not to mention... would filing a claim on this collection be worth losing a claims-free discount? Or worth the $1000 or 500$ deductible? 2. Not sure what it is like in the States, and more specifically "your state" but here in Canada, you must get a personal articles floater for your collection or it will be only be covered under your basic homeowners policy and here in Canada, that limit is 500$ for numistmatic content, and 1000$ for stamp collections. just saying... Take all that with a grain of salt, and accept that knowledge from me, a fellow coin collector, not me, the insurance broker.
