Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere; I searched but couldn't find this exact topic. Something I saw in an older (2011) thread caught my attention because it was close to what I’ve been concerned about for a while: the potential for damage by third-party graders. The post, by lkeigwin, concluded with this: “Finally, the other concern is that for the scanning to be done, and for the Sniffer to sniff, coins have to be handled, placed in mechanic trays, etc. and the possibility of errant damage increased. It is a little disturbing to see the handling in PCGS promotional videos.” I too am a little freaked out by the images of graders handling coins (MY coins!) with nothing to protect that virgin Ag from all their skin oil, when I wouldn’t even touch the OGP without nitrile gloves! 8^) But that isn’t exactly the level of damage I’m talking about here, though it is a long-term concern. What worries me is, there are some lower-level employees unpacking my coins at the front-end, and do we know THEY have the skills & experience to handle coins without harm? (To the coins, not the employees; that’d just be sad.) Same thing with the actual encapsulation: it’s not the graders that are doing that, either. Has anyone here received damaged coins back from a TPG (that were known to be in better condition prior to submission)?
Interesting question. I believe Kasia had some issues but I think that was in regard to the conservation of a coin.
Heh. I've been puzzling over this since I received my first submission back from ANACS yesterday -- there was one Peace dollar that I would've sworn had some ugly staining when I sent it in, but came back looking quite nice. It almost made me wonder whether ANACS might have quietly rinsed the coin before encapsulating it, except that I can't imagine any TPG doing such a thing without advertising it as an extra-cost special service.
Many years ago I won an 1869-S H10c in a teletrade auction, received it while away from home, and couldn't return it because my return privilege had expired. I was unhappy with the grade because it had too many marks in focal areas to be correct, sent it to the TPG for a grading guaranty, and got it back unchanged, with the explanation that thay believed the grade to be correct. Another $30 down the tube. I wrote them complaining that I had coins 2 grades lower that looked superior, and they replied that I should send it back in to an executive I will not name, with the assurance that he would personally handle the free re-examination. I got the coin back in a new holder, but with the same grade as previously assigned. I was upset . . . Why? . . . because the coin had been stripped of its toning, and returned naked white, without even asking for my permission to do so. This is an old story, circa 2000 . . . they probably don't handle things this way anymore, but that was an unpleasant experience that I cannot forget . . . especially since selling that coin at a notable loss.
I once sent in an 1844 O half with the double date and NGC cleaned up around the date some without asking.
A coin can have dust, dander, pollen, ash, saliva, snot, dirt, etc on it when it's raw. Also oils from skin. I wonder if the TPGS soak the coin in some kind of solution that rinses anything that is not stuck to the coin, or uses a blower? How annoying would it be to send in a coin, that you did not realize had a small hair on it, and receive it back like that?
I know of no professional, none, including numismatists, graders and dealers that will wear gloves to handle a coin. Nor do I know of any experienced collectors that will wear gloves. That is because gloves limit & cause you to loose dexterity and your sense of touch and will result in more accidents and dropped coins than not wearing them will. Nor will gloves prevent marks on coins. Cotton gloves, leather gloves, latex gloves, any gloves, can and will leave hairlines and/or smudges on the surface of the coins if you touch the surface of the coins with the gloves. Gloves are recommended in literature for beginners, novices, and inexperienced collectors. And while it may not specifically say so, they are recommended only for them. As for the question, has a coin ever been damaged by a TPG ? I'd say you could bet the farm on it that it has happened. But it sure doesn't happen often. Should you worry about it ? No. Have the TPGs ever dipped, rinsed, or cleaned (not to be mistaken with harshly cleaned) coins without notifying the owner or getting permission from the owner ? Absolutely. And yes that includes both NGC and PCGS. And both companies have publicly admitted, in print, that they have done so.
I concur with GD - it does happen, it is rare. I have seen some mid range coins with little fibres or hairs inside of the slab. For all I know the graders are back in their little windowless dungeon eating tattie chips and sipping on energy drinks - which is why there can be some contamination. It is like the restaurant kitchen inspections, we all get concerned when we see restaurants with lousy marks on the county inspector's page - but are our kitchens actually cleaner than most restaurants?
A bit grumpy today? 8^) Yes, I've heard that argument, though I personally know a neurosurgeon (mine) who might disagree. 8^) And who said anything about touching the surface of a coin? Anyway, the reference to bare fingers was supposed to be funny, a riff on lkeigwin’s remark. Oh, well, this always happens to me. As I said, that isn’t exactly the level of damage I’m talking about here. What I really wanted to solicit was reports of dings, scratches, and the like, as experienced by forum participants. Anything that would lower the grade. So far what I’ve received isn't what I expected at all. It seems like the grading services are actually trying, in some cases, to improve the grade (although not in my experience, haha). Regardless, I think what I should have done was conduct a poll.
I always got a kick out of page 25 of the Dan Homes I catalog. It shows Bob Grellman and Dan Holmes looking at the ANS strawberry leaf large cents, both wearing glove. I always assumed it was ANS policy as I have seen Dan Holmes pull an S79 out of the pocket of his pants on another occasion. http://issuu.com/goldbergcoins/docs/holmes_pt1
I had a nice raw coin with green stuff on the reverse. I thought it was verdigris, but now I'm wondering if it was snot?
I called one of the TPG about a little small amount of green on the edge of a 1937D 3 leg Buffalo nickel. They said to just request a look on the form and if it was just a surface mark they would conserve at no additional fee. I sent it in it they conserved and slabbed it and looked natural to me.
Grumpy ? Not in the least, I was merely trying to answer your questions accurately and post my comments in a straightforward manner. As for touching the surface of the coin - the primary reason for the wearing of gloves is prevent fingerprints from getting on the surface of the coin in the event that the person handling the coin should by accident touch the surface of the coin. Regarding dings, scratches, and the like; as I said I'm reasonably positive it has happened. But it doesn't happen often, and certainly not often enough to warrant worrying about it. As for those lower level employees handling the coins, at PCGS those employees handle about 5,000 coins per work day, at NGC 7,500 coins per work day. If you did something that often day after day don't you think you'd get pretty good at doing it ? That's why you shouldn't worry about it.
Well, if ANACS did it on my Peace dollar, I'm certainly grateful, because the coin looks a lot better than I remember it looking when I sent it in. I had "before" photographs of most of the coins, but not this one; that's an oversight I won't repeat.
Correct me if I'm wrong, GD, but don't mint employees wear gloves when handling the proof coins? I wear gloves when handling my coins. I have noticed no loss in dexterity nor any damage resulting from my use of them. I had, at one point, handled coins bare-handed and saw the damage that happens from your skins direct contact with these metals.
