Couple of Bulls

The first of these 2 bronze coins has Athena on obverse, whereas the second has Alexander the Great. But they have something in common on the reverse. It's a bull butting right. They weigh respectively 8.6 g. and 6.14 g. Hope they're rare.

 

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The second one is Seleucus I and is very common. Here is mine

 

That's a lot of bull....on the coins. Yeah!

Here's some more bull. Except my bull is of Italian stock.

 

Thanks DC. Seleucus I, and the obverse represent the winged head of Medusa with serpents in hair. BMC 65 , SNG Spaer 67.

 

I find it a strange attribution to Medusa, looks more like Seleukos honoured his former boss, Alexander the great , but what do I know.

 

You're right A2. I was going to intervene before you. It's cited as " Medusa with the features of Alexander". The apparent key or symbol to that difference is the Greek letter X written as a capital letter in exergue ( 3 parallel horizontal lines) there.

 

No bull here

Nice bull coins!

 

different coin, same bull

 

Nice bulls 7C!

I don't have a single Greek bull. I have a cow and calf. Here is a bukranion (bull skull) on the reverse of this Philip IIcoin , that's pretty close.

 

Jumping ahead a few years, here's my bull coin:

Julian II ('the Apostate")
Caesar, A.D. 355-361
Augustus, A.D. 361-363
(Bronze) AE1
Antioch mint, A.D. 361-363
Obv: D N CL IVLI-ANVS P F AVG
Rev: SECVRITAS REI PVB - Bull, standing right, two stars above
[palm]SMANTΓ[palm] in exergue
RIC 218
28x25mm, 8.2g

 

Here are some of my Bulls:


Sicily Syracuse 317-289 BC AE 23 Hemilitron Agathokles Kore Bull Dolphin


Sicily Syracuse Hieron II 275-269 BC AE 15 Persephone Bull RIGHT Rare


Phlius Phliasia Peloponnesus AE12 1.8g 400-350 BCE Bull butting - PHI 4 pellets BMC 16


Carthage 216-215 BCE Sardinia mint AE 3.3g Tanit L - BULL stndg R CNP 377a


Uncert West Asia Minor Karia 5th C BC AR tetartermorion 5mm 0.15g Female - Frprt Bull r Kayhan 968 exc rght


RImp Spain Lepida-Clesa Lepidus - mon C Balbus L Porcius Colonia Victrix Ivlia Lepida Victory - Bull holed RPI 262 plate 19


GELA AR Didrachm 490-480 BCE Horseman with spear r - Forepart of man-headed bull r

I have a herd more...

 

Nice bulls !
Here are my bull shots


Syracuse Agathokles 317-289 BC
SYPAKOSYWN. Head of Kore left
Bull butting left, two dolphins and linked VA in field
6.0 gr, 20 mm
Ref : Sear #1195 var



Pantikapaion, AE18
Head of Pan left
Hed and neck of bull left TT A N in field
4.29 gr, 18 mm
Ref : Sear #1699 v, MacDonald 67, SNG BM Black Sea 890-3, SNG Cop. 32



L. Thorius Balbus, Denarius Rome mint, 105 BC
Head of Juno Sospita right, wearing a goat's skin, ISMR behind
Bull charging right, L above (control letter), L. THORIVS BALBVS in two lines at exergue
3.93 gr
Ref : RCV # 192, RSC, Thoria # 1



Augustus, Denarius - struck in Lyon c.12 BC
AUGUSTUS DIVI F, Bare head of Augustus right
IMP X, Bull butting right
3.77 gr
Ref : RCV #1610, Cohen #137



Julian II, AE 1 struck in Antioch, 3 rd officina
D N FL CL IVLI ANVS P F AVG, Diademed, draped and cuirassed bust of Julianus right
SECURITAS REIPUB, Bull to right, two stars above. ANT gamma between two branches at exergue
8.73 gr
Ref : Cohen #38, RC #4072, LRBC #2641

Q

 

The dealer Matt Kruezer also claims that the head depicts Alexander, and that the wings symbolize divinity. Historically scholars used to think the head was Seleukos himself, then decided it was Medusa.

In 1825 E. Q. Visconti identified the winged head as probably Medusa, refuting earlier scholars who believed the head depicted Seleukos himself. Visconti saw the head as a woman. He believed the type refers to the founding of Antioch: “Mount Silphius had an old high altar at which it was said that Perseus honored the father of Zeus when returning from his expedition against the Gorgons. Seleukos founded a temple of Zeus Bottiaios venerated by the Macedonians in the same place where Perseus had left a monument of passage”.

Mionnet published the type twice, once described as Seleukos and once as Medusa. Janus Six saw the head as Medusa, as did Percy Gardner and E. Babelon.

The problem with Visconti’s identification is that this “Medusa” isn’t ugly! “She” lacks a visible tongue. There are no bulging eyes and no earring. The hair has unusual curls and only a hint of ties below the chin. It isn’t even clear if there are snakes. Percy Gardner said the winged head “presents a living face instead of a dying one” and artistically “an entirely new departure”. He believed it to be the earliest profile-head of Medusa and proposes to use it to judge, by style, other ancient representations of Medusa.

It’s possible that ancient people themselves were confused about who was depicted on this type. The die cutters’ intention could have been a deified Alexander. The common people, in regions without a tradition of using wings to signal post-human divinity, could have seen a coin depicting Medusa. Die cutters in the branch mints might not have known what they were replicating.

Percy Gardner’s identification of this coin as a “beautiful Medusa” is a key piece of evidence in art history. Furtwängler, in his article on gorgons ain Roscher’s Lexicon in the late 1880s, dated the Medusa Rondanini original (the Versace logo prototype) to the late fourth century BC on the basis of similarity between the profile of the Medusa and these coins.

 

Thanks Ed for all the different opinions on the coin. I'll go with Matt Kreuzer.
Note that the coins of Lysimachos also shows Alexander with snakelike hair just as the Seleukos coin.
picture: 3 diadochen showing their former king in 3 different ways:

 

If I get all the crud off the obverse maybe I can see who is under there!

Fascinating backstory on this coin, @Ed Snible.

 

Very nice coins indeed: bronze coins have particular appeal,

 

I should probably give the backstory for the reverse. Edward Newell quoted Appian (Loeb Classical Library, Horace White translation) “… when a wild bull was brought for sacrifice to Alexander and broke loose from his ropes, Seleucus held him alone, with nothing but his hands…” Newell thought the coin symbolizes that story.

These coins were struck in four denominations by seven different mints. Not all mints struck all denominations. I have managed to acquire all four denominations and examples of five of the mints. Here is the large denomination, "perhaps" only struck at Seleukeia on the Tigris.
Seleukid Kingdom. Seleukos I Nikator. 312-281 B.C. Seleukeia on the Tigris mint, circa 280 B.C. Æ 23, 10.92g
Obv: Winged head (of Medusa?) right
Rev: BASILEUS SELEUKOY, bull butting right; Θ above, monogram below bull.
SC 151.2a; SNG Spaer 143.
Ex Agora Auctions, auction 6, March 2014, lot 33
Note: Seleucia was opposite Ctesiphon in the center of modern Iraq.

Almost no one identifies the mints correctly for these. I created a cheat sheet to help me find the rare mints.

 

I like my coin a lot more now, thanks! Is Antioch the correct mint for mine?

 

No, yours is Sardes as proved by the KΙ control under the bull. Sardes had the best die cutters.

 

Do you have Ai Khanoum?