Countermarked large cent

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by dougsmit, Feb 7, 2011.

  1. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    How would one go about determining when a countermark on a token/coin was put on the coin? Recently this one appeared on eBay without making claims beyond what can be seen. Sioux Falls City was in Missouri Territory from 1856 to 1861 when they founded Dakota Territory. I suspect it would take a while for the new small cents to make it to a place that remote so I could see large cents circulating there a while longer than the usual 1857 date. The host coin was 1818 with the last numeral only a best guess but the exact date of the coin means nothing here since any Matron Head would be worn by the time that Sioux Falls (now SD) was founded in 1856. The doubling of the O makes me wonder if each letter was applied separately but I am not certain that the letters that appear more than once were made with the same punches so perhaps the O was loose in a holder when struck???

    I have no idea how something like this can be expertised and do not know if the catalogs of countermarked coins even mention this town. Does anyone recognize it as a known fantasy or a known real type? Does anyone on this list collect this sort of thing or do you all just considered it damaged goods?
     

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  3. Marshall

    Marshall Junior Member

    Just about everything is collectible. This is a bit amateurish in style compared to some merchant counter-marks. It's likely to be unique or nearly unique which doesn't always help value. No demand equals low price. But there are several countermark guys who frequent this MB so you're in the right place for better information than I can give you.
     
  4. BRandM

    BRandM Counterstamp Collector

    This counterstamp is almost certainly a fantasy dougsmit. It appears to be a modern fake made to deceive those who don't know what to look for in a genuine piece. Several things jump out at me that tells me it's a fantasy.

    1. The lettering is all wrong. The style and "look" of it aren't period. Genarally, because of the softer steel used to make punches during that time, stamps always had a mushy and indistinct look about then. Also letters with out serifs were not commonly used then.
    2. The Large Cents rarely circulated outside of the eastern seaboard, so any stamp from the west or midwest would typically appear on a U.S. or Spanish silver coin.
    3. Fantasy pieces almost without exception use individual letter punches, not prepared stamps. They're too expensive to make so someone can stamp off a few pieces to sell to the unaware. The crude look of the stamp's application (uneven letters, double-striking, etc.) are purposely done to make it appear old and genuine. It's actually fairly easy to apply a caption with individual punches and make it look like a prepared punch. I've actually tried it, it's not that hard.
    4. Any stamp with a legend that places its origin in a "romantic" locale or historical period raises a red flag. They include the Old West, Civil War (especially the Confereracy) Territories (like this one), Wells Fargo, Hawaii, etc.
    As far as determining the period a counterstamp was applied to a coin, wear patterns are the best indicator. In your piece the coin is heavily worn, but the stamp really shows no wear. It was applied many years after the coin stopped circulating. After having said all that, I think the coin is still neat...only not real.

    Bruce
     
  5. JBK

    JBK Coin Collector

    Bruce's observations are very insightful and worth keeping on file. Assessing undocumented counterstamps (especially "free form" ones done with individual letter punches) can be a real challenge.

    It is also helpful to have a general familiarity with type styles and text format from different eras. As has already been noted, the type style of this counterstamp is suspect. It really looks exactly like modern punches made in China or India that I own. Also, back in the 19th century, they loved their punctuation. Printed materials such as posters, broadsides, banners, etc. often (usually) show a liberal use of periods after phrases or names, and certainly for abbreviations. I can not imagine all the words on this coin could have been struck in the 19th century without the use of any punctuation.

    The use of a low grade/cull coin is also a big warning sign.
     
  6. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    I agree that things look bad for this coin but can not help thinking that Missouri Territory 1856-61 was so remote that rules for the East would hardly apply. The city was abandoned in 1862 and not refounded for several years. I agree regarding the cull grade coin but any large cent showing wear today probably showed most of that wear in 1861 since the things were pulled from circulation. Thanks to all that commented.
     
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