Could you help me out with some dates on Iranian coins?

Hello again!

Just picked up some new foreign silver, and I'm wondering if anyone can help me out with specific dates on these Iranian coins. Thanks for the help!

1 Rial




2 Rials




5 Rials




10 Rials


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All appear to be 1323 which converts to 1905 (I think). Nice looking for 100 years old?

Edit: I don't think the conversion to western date is correct.

 

In my Krause, the year 1323 converts to 1944. Since there aren't any matching coins from 1905...I might think they're 1944 (WW2 era foreign coins are much more common here.)

There is apparently an overdate 1323/2 for this year. I'm wondering if any of these would be the overdate? I'll work on some closeups of the dates...

 

1944 seem more realistic.

 

I've updated the original post with the date closeups...

NGC/Krause list a significant price increase for the 2 Rials ($60 in MS60, $51 higher), and a decent bump for the 10 Rials ($37 in MS60, $15 higher.) Looks like the 5 Rials escaped the overdate. No prices are listed anywhere for the 1 Rial overdate...

 

Looking at these coins through the loop I see TONS of die polish marks. At first glance, the coins appear harshly cleaned, but all the lines are raised...

 

These are annoying in that Krause is weird with them, also bolstered by the fact there there are often other issues that can be confused with overdates. As for the Krause prices, in my experience they generally do not command as high a premium as the catalog shows. But hey, that's Krause for ya. Perhaps it's because of that people offer the messed up struck coins falsely as the overdates.
By the way on the 2 rials, not many people realize that for this coin it's the first three in the date rather than the last one that is the identifier. I see lots of them with a sloppy or weak last 3 offered as the overdate variety.

 

Do you think any of these are the overdates?

 

The 2 rials for sure, 10 rials.. some stuff going on with the last 3, but honestly looks more like a botched digit, which is also common with these.

 

If the 2 Rials is an over date, that's great news - it's the one with the biggest price jump. (Of course, price guides are just that...)

For melt, though, I'm even happier I picked them up!

 

Wouldn't expect Krause prices, but definitely a great buy at melt

It's often hard to tell, but there appears to be clear separation with two tips on the first 3 in the date. One lower and one higher. That's consistent with other examples, including the few slabbed ones that are out there.

 

Now that you describe it, that is what the 2 Rials looks like. Happy face.

 

Cool find man =)

 

What do you know about the 1 and 10 Rials overdates? Is it again the first 3 that has the overdate, or the second?

 

Last three on all but the 2 rials from what I've seen (the 1 rial is a double hubbed 3/3). Also 5 rials has it, not sure why Krause left it out.

Pretty sure I have one here somewhere, but I'm like Scrooge McDuck over here (if you get that reference) so not gonna be easy to find it

 

Ha ha totally get that reference! Used to watch that all the time...

Did a few Google searches, didn't find many images with useful information, so your help is AMAZINGLY wonderful. Thank you!

On my 1 Rial, I don't see anything that stands out as an overdate. On my 5, It's such a worn die the date is barely there in the first place, so that would be a no. On the 10, it does look like something's going on there. The second 3 is different from the first, and it does look like part of the numeral is stamped on top of the other part.

 

Yea it looks like more of an underdate on the 10 rial, which is of course not the case. Like I said before, the abundance of other problems makes it hard to correctly identify the overdate varieties. I suspect that is why the prices and attributions are inconsistent. But your 2 rial coin is pretty clearly it

 

Just an update here: apparently NGC disagrees that my 2 Rial is the 1323/2 overdate. BOO.

 

Re: the date of these coins: The standard Muslim calendar starts in the year of the Hijra (Muhammad's relocation from Mecca to Medina) in 622 AD. The Muslim calendar is lunar-based, with a year that is 354 days long, so you can't just add 622 to an AH (Hijra) year to get the AD equivalent- there's a formula to get an approximation, and charts you can look up to get the exact days in AD calendar that AH years start and end. The year 1323 AH is equivalent to 1905 AD (or more exactly, 1323 AH extended from March 8, 1905 to February 25, 1906.)

However, starting in 1925 AD coins from Iran use the SH (Solar Hijra) calendar. The SH calendar stats with the Hijra year of 622 AD, but it uses the standard 365.25 day solar year, so one year of SH time is exactly equal to one year of AD time. The year 1323 SH is equivalent to 1944 AD, as the Krause catalogue says. Unfortunately, there is nothing on the coins to indicate whether the date is in AH or SH, you just have to know it based on the coin's other design (or else look it up in the catalogue).

(For the sake of completeness, I should mention that from 1976 to 1978 yet another dating system was used, based on the establishment of the ancient Persian monarchy, with dates MS 2535 to MS 2537. The less said about it, the better.)