Cool countermarks but.....

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Pishpash, Jun 15, 2016.

  1. Pishpash

    Pishpash Well-Known Member

    Unfortunately not my coin. It has two great countermarks, a bunch of grapes and (I think) a dolphin.

    I am trying to identify the underlying coin, can anyone give me a steer based upon the letters on the reverse please?
    IMG_4523.JPG grapes.JPG
    IMG_4524.JPG
    dolphin.JPG
     
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  3. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Thrace, Byzantium? Obverse is Demeter (or other veiled female)? A quick check of Wildwinds and CNG shows no matches so maybe I'm wrong, or maybe you'll need to look through old books/catalogs.
     
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  4. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Yes, I think that's it. Here's a similar coin on acsearch and it even has the same countermarks:

    https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1872490

    THRACE. Byzantion. Ae (Circa 3rd-2nd century BC). Meniskos, magistrate.
    Obv: Veiled and wreathed head of Demeter right.Countermark: Grape.
    Rev: BYZANTIΩΝ / ΕΠΙ / ΜΕΝΙΣΚΟΥ .
    Cornucopia between legend. Countermarks: Star and Dolphin.
    SNG BM Black Sea 68. Countermarks: SNG BM Black Sea 69.
    Condition: Good fine.
    Weight: 8.0 g.
    Diameter: 24 mm.

    Yours must've been issued by a different magistrate because the letters below the cornucopia are different.
     
  5. Pishpash

    Pishpash Well-Known Member

    Excellent TIF, many thanks, you are a star !
     
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  6. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

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  7. Pishpash

    Pishpash Well-Known Member

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  8. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    I am reviving this old thread because I recently bought an example of the OP, and if it weren't for this post, I think I would've failed in my efforts in figuring it out - another example of how Coin Talk has helped me out, even without posting anything to ask for help. Thank you, Pishpash and TIF for getting me on the right track.

    My example has been disgracefully over-cleaned, among other problems. I bought it because it was cheap and I thought I'd figure out things the seller's photos didn't reveal - I like the challenge. But when I got it in hand I was stumped - it was very hard to "read" - thanks to wear, damage, and a blotchy partial patina left from a harsh cleaning. I figured I was out of luck - until I blundered onto this old thread.

    Here it is - unretouched and with my pitiful efforts to show the countermarks (and Demeter's face):

    CM - Byzantion grapes & dolphin Jun 2019a (0).jpg

    CM - Byzantion grapes & dolphin Jun 2019a (0 detail).jpg

    Byzantion Æ 19
    (c. 3rd - 2nd Century B.C.)

    Demeter head veiled right / YZAN[TIΩN], cornucopia, [EΠI M]ENEK[P].
    Countermarks:
    Obv.: Grapes w. tendrils forming monogram.
    Rev.: Dolphin in 9 mm circle.
    Host: SNG BM Black Sea 68.
    CM: SNG BM Black Sea 69.
    (10.97 grams / 19 mm)

    Here is a much nicer one from a FORVM listing:

    CM Thrace Byzantium - CMs on AE - FORVM 1 pic.jpg
    https://www.forumancientcoins.com/c...fld=https://www.forumancientcoins.com/Coins2/
     
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  9. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    Fun coin and good work identifying it! Though from the looks of things this coin has been suffering from bronze disease for some time, was cleaned but it's coming back. Might I recommend a distilled water bath?
     
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  10. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    That's a good idea, Ryro. It's been so harshly stripped I'm surprised anything survived! I will bathe it and see what happens.
     
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