Completely Ignorant - Need some help!

Good Afternoon!

I have been asked to research these two coin belts by an elderly woman. I am woefully ignorant about coins, and I could certainly use any help. The woman is the wife of a retired diplomat who served all over the middle east and in India during the 60s, where she purchased these two belts.

The first belt is made up of George V King and Emporer of India Ceylon 50 Cent pieces - ranging in years from 1917 to 1929 - there are 26 coins on the belt.

The second belt looks to be the more interesting one. It is made up of two different types of coins: Victoria Empress One Rupee India (5 of them) dating from the years 1900, 1901, 1889, 1862; and Edward VII King and Emporer One Rupee India (4 of them) years 1909, 1906, 1904.

I don't know whether or not these belts have any value at all, but any information would be most helpful.


Thanks!

Beau

1st Belt:

 

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I think the weight of the belt defeats the purpose!

 

up close

 

reverse

 

2nd Belt

 

closeup of 1st type of coin

 

reverse of that 1st type

 

2nd type of coin

 

reverse to the 2nd type of coin - thanks!

 

to CoinTalk Beau.

To start off with, you're not completely ignorant - after all you knew enough to find CoinTalk!

The bad news is that the soldering of links to those coins irretreivably damaged them as collectible coins and to a coin collector each belt is worth considerably less than the aggregate value of its components if they had not been damaged.

The (sort of) good news is that

1. None of the coins look like they were of particularly great value before they were belted, and
2. There are people who collect "coin jewelry" and others who collect British Empire memorabilia, and if the owner wants to sell them, the folks who might want them are probably looking at EBay auctions this very minute.

If I get a chance, I'll look the coins up in the Standard Catalog of World Coins, and report back if any of them turn out to have an undamaged value north of five bucks or so.

 

My late mother had a similar coin belt and my little brother has turned down $50 and the buyer wouldn't go any higher. The coins are damaged because they have been soldiered.

Welcome to the Forum,
Ben

 

I may be totally wrong but I would say that the belts are antique belly dancer belts. May if you searched e bay form that subject you may have some luck.

Lou

 

Okay friends, if you’re not interested in the details of why I estimate the total melt value of the coins to be <$100, and their approximate pre-soldering numismatic value at <$75, feel perfectly free to progress to the next thread.

Those of you hungry for all those nitty-gritty details, turn on your IPOD, get your popcorn bowl , lean back in your favorite recliner, and read on.

The ones from 1917 are listed as KM#109 in the Standard Catalog of Worlds Coins (“Krause”) 20th Century 34th Edition (2007). 1,073,000 of them were struck in 1917, valued at $2.50 F, $5 VF, $10 XF and $20 Unc.

The rest are KM#109a, the same design and diameter, but struck in .550 silver, a significant debasement from .15 oz. actual silver weight (“ASW”) to .1031 oz. ASW.

From 1919-29 between 500,000 and 1,040,000 were struck each year except 1923. From 1919-21 they were struck at Bombay and in the other years they bear no mint mark, and were probably struck at Heaton in England. Values are listed at $1.50-2 F, $3.50-5 VF, $7-10 XF, and $16-20 Unc. Proofs were struck each year (again skipping 1923) and they are cataloged at $120 each.

Based on the only photo posted, and assuming a roughly matched set, I have to assign a grade of F to all 26 coins, for an estimated numismatic value (pre-soldering of course) in the $30+/- range. Using a WAG of 1/4 KM#100s, the aggregate bullion value is somewhere in the neighborhood of $35 (silver is down guys).

Just interesting? No.

Fascinating? Oh yes.

1862, the first year of production for Victoria bust KM#473.1, 11.66g, .917 silver, 1 Rupees, is quite a study all by itself.

To summarize the information in my 19th Century Krause 3rd Ed. (2001), the Calcutta, Bombay and Madras mints (using privy marks rather than letter mint marks) produced more than 700-million coins with that date, using various combinations of three different busts, and three reverses with differing details. Coins with that date were minted through 1874, and the various combinations of bust/reverse are attributed to specific years. Just to confuse things more, there were also official restrikes!

Depending on assumed year of production, undamaged examples are valued in that edition from $5-15 F, $7.50-30 VF, $12.40-40 XF, and $25-80 Unc.; plus a $200 Calcutta proof and a $60 Calcutta restrike. No values are given for the three “rare” varieties.

For 1889 (and later years) we have KM#473.2, also 11.66g of .917 silver. Mintage at Calcutta was 9,368,000 with an incuse “C” mint mark - $5 F, $8 VF, $12.50 XF, $25 Unc. At Bombay 65,300,000 were minted, with both incuse and raised “B” mint marks. Values are the same, except for the raised “B” version which is listed at $30 Unc. No proofs were struck, but proof-like restrikes are valued at $35.

In 1900 Bombay produced 65,237,000 incuse-lettered coins, plus a proof ($175), a proof-like silver restrike ($35) and a proof-like gold restrike (KM#492c, $850). Calcutta production was 5,291,000 incuse-lettered coins and a $175 proof. Business strikes from both mints catalog at $5 F, $8 VF, $12 XF and $25 Unc. for both 1900 and 1901, the first year of the 20th Century, which saw the final production of the design - 72,017,000 incuse mint marked Calcutta rupees, and 130,258,000 incuse mint marked Bombay coins. There were two varieties of the Bombay strikes, along with a $600 Bombay proof and a $200 proof-like Bombay restrike.

Those are all KM#508 with the same 11.66g of .917 silver. Also, all four years are cataloged at the same $5-$25 as the Vickies described above, and in those particular years consisted of Calcutta coins with no mint mark, Bombay coins with an incuse “B”, Bombay proofs ($700) and Bombay proof-like restrikes ($200).

The 9 coins making up the small belt have a combined melt value of ~$40, and an aggregate catalog value of ~$63, assuming an average F/VF condition based on the pictures posted.

 

Wow! Thanks for all the excellent information. I'm actually a militaria collector myself, so this is a whole new world to me! I'll give her a call tomorrow and let her know. Thanks again for welcoming me to the forum, this is certainly an interesting area of study!

Beau

 

Roy:
Thanks for the info, and I enjoyed the popcorn.

 

I'm a bit surprised the soldering held up with that first belt. I've seen loops added for charms, etc., but if it was big and heavy, holes were drilled. I have an interesting 10 Morgan necklace which is... heavy and might have caused the death of the owner and some other coin jewelry.

 

Those coins are worthless as coins,but they are worth something in terms of their bullion value.Of course,it depends on the fineness of the silver.

Aidan.

 

Now Aidan, I'm sure you even heard of 'Sentimental Value" that can be priceless...

 

lol...as soon as someone wants to know 'how much', sentimentality goes out the window

 

Unless you have a basis for disagreement with my analysis that

• The 1917 50¢ pieces are KM#419, .15 oz. ASW, (5.8319g, .800 silver)
• the rest are KM#419a, .1013 ASW (5.8319g, .550 silver, and)
• All the Rupees are KM#473.1/2, .3838 oz. ASW (11.66g, .917 silve,.

what useful information has your comment added to this thread?

If you do have such a disagreement, please explain where I have gone astray.

(My guesstimate of the total bullion value, <$100, could certainly be refined if Beau would tell us exactly how many of the Ceylon coins are dated 1917. )