Coin that has NGC/ Details/ cleaned

I was wondering, if a "details/ cleaned/ coin" is something to consider bidding on or/ stay far away from....since its got a defect.

 

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It is, of course, up to the individual whether a "details, cleaned" coin is good enough to collect. However, personally I don't much mind cleaned coins and would think that might put off competitive bids, making me more likely to bid (lowish) on it. For any gold coin I would want to know its regular weight. That coin looks clipped and that bothers me a lot. If it is supposed to weigh the given 3.43 grams, then it may be typical of the type for examples to be crowded. I, personally, would not buy a coin with the legend clipped, even one in high grade, unless I really wanted the type and could not find an example that was full flan.

 

The cliff notes answer is just depends on the price. Every coin has a price where its worth it

 

The early Spanish States gold Florins are really difficult to find in high grades. Most examples that appear in auctions are F/VF/VF+
Lots of these are poorly executed (struck) many on tight flans. Also "clipping"was in fashion back in the Medieval/ Renaissance eras. Thanks for advice

 

There was a lot of clipping in that time period or any for that matter. Weight and fineness was The main factor. Each one is a lesson in the economic history of the
time. We have the luxury to be able to obtain a bit of that time period.

 

On a coin that old, cleaned would not be a problem for me. It looks like some metal has been removed and that would be a problem.

 

I like the coin, it has excellent eye appeal. Perhaps gold coins retain their usual color if chemicals have been used as gold is non-reactive to other elements (sometimes silver and especially copper coins seem to change into a different color through chemical cleaning.) The history that coin depicts and its travels through the centuries is precious, in the same sense as of a precious metal. Lots of things to think about when considering buying (especially a centuries-old) coin.

 

These coins where practically made of pure gold, so very soft and sensitive to wear and tear. Its surprising that any survived to this day in mint state. However/ Spanish Florins/ Ducatos are rarely seen in MS/ most are badly struck/ worn from circulation.

 

Might you be able to tell us more about Aragon-Pedro IV? Maybe it's my ancient eyes--might you be able to describe what is on the obverse--the gown, what he appears to be holding, the legend; and on the reverse--the symbolism and again, the legend? This appears to be about the size/weight of a Roman/Byzantine aureus, perhaps this was done for a reason? Were there larger gold coins in Spain at the time? I apologize if I'm asking too many questions, but this is a neat coin with much to say to us.

 

These where imitations of the Florentine AV Florin d'oro 1250-1450. They where around the same weight/ diameter/ gold content as European Goldguldens/ Ducatos/ Zecchini/ Dukaten. The obverse depicted my namesake "John the Baptist" the reverse, the "Florentine Lily" Yes/ Spain struck AV 50 Excelentes (350g.) same as AV 100 Dukaten. Here is are some of mine....
1/ Avignon / Urbano V
2/ Florence/ unique/ only known ex.
3/ Orange/ Raymond V

 

Interesting how your coins dovetail with an interest of mine: St. John the Baptist. The Knights of Malta (official name: "Sovereign Military order of St. John of Jerusalem of Rhodes and Malta") are over 900 years old and in recent times have morphed from a "military" order into one with extensive works of charity throughout the world, while still remaining a religious order. In Europe during WW II they even had a hospital train in Europe. During the past year many of their 85,000 or so "Maltesa" members have worked to provide help during the COVID pandemic.

There's an excellent book, "Coins Minted by the Knights in Malta," by John A. Gatt. On these coins one can find other images of St. John the Baptist.

I thought you might be interested in this as you mentioned St. John the Baptist is your namesake. He was mentioned frequently in the daily Mass readings of Advent.

One notes the slightly different weights on the first two coins above, 3.56 g and 3.52 g. Your first coin in the posting is 3.43.

 

I wonder what the cutoff date is for NGC's "Details" designation? If you send them a follis of Constantine which has surely been cleaned, they'll give you a straight grade simply because most ancient coins have been cleaned. When do they start handing out "Details" - the 14th century, as in this case? Or earlier?

 

I'm almost positive it applies to everything but ancients, so as soon as you dont have to use the ancient tier.

 

I think for ancients they do have flaws listed

 

https://www.ngccoin.com/specialty-services/ancient-coins/grading.aspx

 

I was wondering exactly the same thing: just how old does a coin have to be before cleaning it becomes an acceptable practice and doesn't reduce its value? Is it when a coin is old enough to reasonably assume that at some point in its history it was below ground, and someone dug it up? By that standard, I would think it's OK to clean not only ancient coins but also most medieval coins. It's only with the Renaissance ("early Modern") that it becomes reasonable to think that a coin has been above ground, and continuously owned by a series of people, since it was minted. The question becomes, I suppose, whether buried vs. unburied is a fair line to draw to determine whether cleaning is OK vs. not OK.

 

I collect US type coins. For some issues, I don't mind a "details" coin. For example, large cents may have some environmental damage/corrosion that's just enough to get graded details, but the coin still looks nice. If the price bumps down due to the details designation, then it works for me. Cleaned copper on the other hand, looks ugly.
I recently bought a Flowing Hair Half Dollar with the initials "J.M." carved in the fields of the obverse. I got it graded and the slab says "graffiti." That's fine with me, a wholesome coin would have been MUCH more expensive, and I'm imagining that it was James Madison who scratched his initials in the coin.

 

We had a discussion about that subject in our last coin club meeting back in March 10th/2020....before the COVID came over from China.
We had invited some guest speakers, to debate the pros and cons of coin cleaning. Their analysis....professional conservation is great/ a must for coins recovered from ship wrecks/ buried in pots/ soil/ walls/ etc. For example the coins from SS-Central America wreck all where professionally restored/ without any damage to surfaces of the gold coins. So, when graded by NGC/ none had "details" cleaned.

 

Cleaned, so what, that is one beautiful ancient coin.

 

"NGC grades most US and world coins struck 1600 to date (or 1300 to date for Western Europe) as well as many tokens and medals. NGC Ancients provides comprehensive grading services for coins from Western ancient civilizations, dating from the inception of coinage to circa AD 500, and coins of the Byzantine Empire (AD 491–1453)."

The grading system used depends on which NGC division grades the coin. The op coin falls (barely) into NGC's modern World Coins category, so subject to essentially the same standards as a coin struck in the 21st century. Most coins from c. AD 500 to AD 1300 (Byzantine being the sole exception) are ineligible for grading.

https://www.ngccoin.com/submit/coins-we-grade/