Coin Grading/Authentication Services

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Reid Goldsborough, Sep 27, 2002.

  1. Reid Goldsborough

    Reid Goldsborough New Member

    Additions and corrections are welcomed. This document is copyrighted -- please don't republish elsewhere.

    Slabs can provide a measure of security when buying expensive coins, but some grading companies grade considerably more liberally than others, which can cause unsuspecting buyers to pay considerably more for a coin than they would otherwise.

    Each of the services below has its strengths and weaknesses, and each can be worth patronizing, depending on the specific coin. Updates, corrections, and additions are welcomed with any of this information.

    First-Tier Services in Terms of Market Acceptance Today

    PCGS (Professional Coin Grading Service)
    800-447-8848

    * PCGS-graded coins have highest retail value of any grading company, according to the Coin Dealer Newsletter.
    * Along with NGC, ranked "superior" in a 2004 survey of PNG (Professional Numismatists Guild) and ICTA (Industry Council for Tangible Assets) members in terms of grading accuracy and ability to detect altered, repaired, damaged, cleaned, and counterfeit coins.
    * Rated the least consistent service of eight major services (others were NGC, ANACS, ICG, SEGS, PCI, ACG, and NTC) in a 2003 study by Coin World. PCGS's lack of consistency may be deliberate or not, but it has the effect of encouraging repeat submissions of the same coin, which generate more revenue for it.
    * Coins in older slabs generally graded more conservatively and worth more. Newest PCGS slabs have blue label; green label older; dot-matrix printed label older still. Detailed breakdown with approximate dates:

    3/02-date: Light blue label, with barcode, with coin and series numbers
    1/99-2/02: Light blue label, no barcode, with coin and series number
    11/98-12/98: Light blue label, no barcode, no coin and series numbers
    Mid 1995-11/98: Green label, serial number starts at right of left edge of barcode
    1/90-mid 1995: Green (yellow through blue), label serial number starts at left of left edge of barcode
    11/89-12/89: Slab within frame, doily label
    9/89-11/89: Slab within frame, off-white label
    1986-9/89: Small slabs

    * Net grades (lowers a coin's grade for minor problems) but does not note it on the holder.
    * Bodybags (doesn't grade) problem coins (major problems) -- no refund of fee.
    * With regular service, coins are initially graded by two graders independent of one another. If there's disagreement, a third grader grades the coin. If the third grader agrees with one of the other two graders, the coin receives that grade. If not, sometimes the grading is averaged, sometimes the graders reevaluate the coin. After these initial evaluations, the grading of the coin-in-slab is verified. Between 2% and 4% of coins are regraded at this point. A final verification ensures that slab insert information is correct.
    * Charges $30 for pre-1970 coins for 30-day turnaround, plus shipping and insurance.
    * Registered eBay users can submit to PCGS (click on Submission Center).
    * Guarantee: PCGS, unlike NGC, ANACS, ICG, and SEGS, is not specific about its guarantee at its Web site. On the phone, a customer service rep said if you buy a PCGS-graded coin and feel PCGS overgraded it, you can submit it to PCGS for re-examination. Unlike with NGC and ICG, however, you're charged the regular grading fee for this re-examination. If PCGS determines that the actual grade is lower than the grade on the slab, it will work with you, either paying you the difference between the fair market value of the coin at the re-examination grade and the fair market value at the grade originally assigned by PCGS or buying the coin outright from you.

    NGC (Numismatic Guaranty Corporation of America)
    800-642-2646

    * Along with PCGS, ranked "superior" in a 2004 survey of PNG (Professional Numismatists Guild) and ICTA (Industry Council for Tangible Assets) members in terms of grading accuracy and ability to detect altered, repaired, damaged, cleaned, and counterfeit coins.
    * Can be more difficult to get less-than-perfect circulated coins in an NGC slab than a PCGS slab, depending on the series.
    * Newest slabs have fine perforation at bottom of label and small rounded square hologram on back; older slabs have full-width hologram.
    * Net grades but does not note it on the holder.
    * Bodybags problem coins -- no refund of fee.
    * Offers coin cleaning service through NCS (Numismatic Conservation Service). NCS will also authenticate and slab coins without grading them.
    * Charges $28 for coins over $300 with 12-day turnaround; $15 for coins under $300 for 21-day turnaround with 5 coin minimum, plus shipping and insurance.
    * Registered eBay users can submit to NGC and get a 10% rebate credited to their eBay account.
    * Any ANA member can submit directly to NGC through this Web page.
    * Guarantee: If you buy an NGC-graded coin and feel NGC overgraded it, you can submit it to NGC for re-examination for free. If NGC determines that the actual grade is lower than the grade on the slab, it will, at NGC's option, either replace the coin for one at the originally assigned grade or pay you the difference between the fair market value of the coin at the re-examination grade and the fair market value at the grade originally assigned by NGC, with the fair market value determined by NGC using "reliable current market information," which it says do not include Internet auctions/sales.

    Second-Tier Services in Terms of Market Acceptance Today

    ANACS (Amos Certification Service)
    800-888-1861

    * Ranked "average" in a 2004 survey of PNG (Professional Numismatists Guild) and ICTA (Industry Council for Tangible Assets) members in terms of grading accuracy and "superior" in ability to detect altered, repaired, damaged, cleaned, and counterfeit coins.
    * Regarded as more liberal with grading in general than PCGS or NGC.
    * Good choice for problem coins. Notes problem on slab label and gives both technical and net grade. Sometimes, however, problems noted on the slab can be more visible than the problems on the coin itself.
    * Physical slab holders are smaller and less attractive than slabs of other mainstream grading services.
    * Only mainstream grading service that offers an authentication-only option, though it doesn't mention this on its Web site or charge any less for this. You check a box on the submission form. NGS, known mostly as a coin conservation service, also offers an authentication-only slabbing option.
    * Provides helpful service at national coin shows, informally grading and authenticating your coins, though it doesn't guarantee that you'd receive same grades if you formally submitted the same coins.
    * Charges $12 + $10 for return shipping and insurance = $22 + $9 extra for five-day service = $31.
    * Without five-day service, turnaround five to six weeks.
    * Authenticates, grades, and slabs ancient coins, though the slabbing of ancients isn't accepted by most of the ancient coin community.
    * Guarantee: If you buy a gold or silver ANACS-graded coin and feel ANACS overgraded it, you can submit it to ANACS for re-examination for a $15 fee. If ANACS determines that the actual grade is lower than the grade on the slab, it will refund your $15 fee and pay you the difference between the fair market value of the coin at the re-examination grade and the fair market value at the grade originally assigned by ANACS, using "the most accurate pricing guide(s) as determined by ANACS." On the phone, a customer service rep said that another option you have is to request that ANACS buy the coin outright from you.

    ICG (Independent Coin Grading Co.)
    877-221-4424

    * Ranked "average" in a 2004 survey of PNG (Professional Numismatists Guild) and ICTA (Industry Council for Tangible Assets) members in terms of grading accuracy and "superior" in ability to detect altered, repaired, damaged, cleaned, and counterfeit coins.
    * Uses Intercept Shield slabs designed to protect coins from toning and other environmental damage (dealers can opt out of using Intercept Shield technology).
    * Criticized for being too liberal with PR-70 and MS-70 grades and for overgrading modern coins, particularly with grades MS-65 and higher.
    * Net grades but does not note it on the holder.
    * Bodybags problem coins -- credits fee to your account with exception of $5 processing fee.
    * Authenticates, grades, and slabs ancient coins, though the slabbing of ancients isn't accepted by most of the ancient coin community.
    * Charges $30 for coins over $300 for nondealers for 15-day turnaround, plus shipping and insurance; $15 for coins under $300 for 21-day turnaround with 5-coin minimum, plus shipping and insurance.
    * Guarantee: If you buy a non-copper ICG-graded coin and feel ICG overgraded it, you can submit it to ICG for re-examination for free. If ICG determines that the actual grade is lower than the grade on the slab, it will, at ICG's option, either replace the coin for one at the originally assigned grade or pay you the difference between the fair market value of the coin at the re-examination grade and the fair market value at the grade originally assigned by ICG, with the fair market value "determined solely by ICG."

    Other Grading Services

    New grading services pop up all the time. Some may be bona fide attempts to create legitimate, industry-respected operations. Nonetheless, caveat emptor (buyer beware). Some of these services appear to be deliberate attempts to fool inexperienced collectors by "certifying" the practice of overgrading, grading coins far more leniently than published standards such as those in the Official A.N.A. Grading Standards for United States Coins and Photograde: A Photographic Grading Guide. Most of these services are "self slabbers"-- small operations run by a single coin dealer. These slabs generally provide no more security or market value than a dealer marking a grade in pencil on a 2x2 cardboard coin holder. As with all slabs, the slabs themselves can be an attractive way to store coins.

    Foreign Coins

    ICCS (International Coin Certification Service)
    416-488-8620

    * Small coin-grading service in Toronto respected in the Canadian market.

    Ancient Coins

    ACCS (Ancient Coin Certification Service)

    * Service of David Sear, author of the Greek Coins and Their Values, Roman Coins and Their Values, and other standard ancient numismatic attribution works.
    * Authenticates and attributes but does not grade or slab. Coins are accompanied by black-and-white photo and certificate.
    * Charges $35 for basic service or $45 for detailed service. Detailed service includes extra information about the coin's historical significance.
    * Turnaround two to three weeks. With express service, which costs an extra $20 per coin (three coin maximum), turnaround time is three working days.
    * Does not offer guarantee of coin's authenticity.


    ICG (Independent Coin Grading Co.)
    877-221-4424

    * See above description.

    ANACS (Amos Certification Service)
    800-888-1861

    * See above description.

    IBSCC (International Bureau for the Suppression of Counterfeit Coins)

    * Service of the International Association of Professional Numismatists.
    * Based in Switzerland.
    * Authentication available only for dealer members of IAPN (International Association of Professional Numismatists). Works with more than 100 outside experts.
    * No certificate issued.
    * Does not offer guarantee of coin's authenticity.

    The British Museum, Department of Coins and Medals

    * Authenticates.
    * Charges only return postage.
    * No certificate issued.
    * Does not offer guarantee of coin's authenticity.
     
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. Neptune

    Neptune & Amphitrite

    Again, thanks for this post. I am going to actually print this one for my notebook.

    I also find it ironic that the coin graders clean coins. Does anyone know how much they charge for this service?
     
  4. kieferscoins

    kieferscoins New Member

    I don't agree with this. Didn't alot of the Benson pedigree coins get resubmitted and many of the coins received one grade higher at the second try without the pedigree histroy. Why didn't NGC overgrade the first time? Bass coins that I have seen have not looked overgraded. Which important collection would fall under this assumption?

    Overall, this is the most informative thread ever on this message boards history. Thanks for posting it.

    Cameron Kiefer
     
  5. Reid Goldsborough

    Reid Goldsborough New Member

    All the big-ticket, big-name coins with provenance, such as 1804 dollars and 1913 nickels, have been overgraded. I've seen plenty of lesser priced coins from rich collectors who've died also overgraded, including Eliasberg and Pittman. I bought a coin from the Miller collection that was overgraded by ICG. Here's a page I put together as part of a larger site about Draped Bust coins. The last coin illustrated is a Pittman coin that NGC overgraded by ten points (taking into consideration the wear and marks -- the marks aren't completely visible in the photo):

    http://mywebpages.comcast.net/reidgold/draped_busts/ngc.html
     
  6. Jess

    Jess Senior Member

    Interesting Article, as I have a keen interest in slabbed Eisenhower Dollars, not for the coins but for the slabs. There is a method to my madness, one they are still reasonable, two I have a copy of "The Authoriatative Reference on Eisenhower Dollars" by Wexler, Crawford and Flynn printed in 1998, Archive Press, Inc. I am comparing the different graders to the book for die varieties not listed by the graders, hence money in the bank so to speak. As I find them in Mint and Proof Sets I send them off to be slabbed. Will advise as work progresses.
     
  7. chrisfuccione

    chrisfuccione Member

    good atracile. The only question I have is why would any company use a name close to ACG to try and confuse thier comany with ACG? CHRIS
     
  8. Reid Goldsborough

    Reid Goldsborough New Member

    Stupidity? Seriously, maybe this guy, after seeing a lot of coins in ACG slabs, though to himself, "Well, if they can get lots of grading fees for doing what they do, maybe I can too."
     
  9. chrisfuccione

    chrisfuccione Member

    Well he can't be any worse! CHRIS
     
  10. kaparthy

    kaparthy Well-Known Member

    Whining for Dollars

    What happened was something like this:

    A dealer would approach Rick Montgomery on the floor and start whining. "Look at this. It's overgraded. ... whine whine whine" and Rick Montgomery would take the coin and have it looked at again and usually it would be put into a new holder with the right grade and whatever else had to be done -- like money changing hands -- would happen and the dealer would be happy.

    Now, PCGS is the Number One grading service.

    On the other hand, other companies simply maintained that they do not make mistakes.

    Now, all companies looking forward to the day after tomorrow have some sort of policy to guarantee their grades or their re-grades or whatever. But PCGS's lead is well-established and well-maintained.

    Everyone makes mistakes. Grading is subjective. On RCC, BiggFredd has referred to the many egregious misgradings by "leading companies" that he has posted links to. He says that the apologists resort to special pleadings. Maybe they do.

    Essentially, all grading companies have the same strengths and weaknesses. (Grading is subjective.) What makes one superior to another is not always measurable if you look at it from outside the box. Within the context of the numismatic markets, the measures are there in dollars and cents and that makes them real enough.
     
  11. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    A couple of points - none of the better grading companies will clean your coins. They just don't do it.

    There is a company - NCS - that does offer a conservation service - and this could be thought of as cleaning. But they are not a grading company. They will however - after they have performed their service for you - submit your coin to NGC and have them grade the coin.

    One other note - Rick Montgomery no longer works for PCGS - he now works for NGC.
     
  12. evillageprowler

    evillageprowler New Member

    Reid,

    I went to your web site and read your blurb about the lousy ED's. Interesting.

    One thing I noticed from your web site that I wish to discuss... You seem to think that the services messed up with those examples because they slabbed specimens that are overgraded or have lousy eye appeal.

    Let's talk about the overgrading issue. You go by amount of remaining central detail, as with the 1799 dollar. (Yes, I know that the coin is also unoriginal and likely harshly cleaned!) With the central detail as weak as it is, you say that the coin is a VF specimen. NGC should not have given it a ChVF grade. From looking at the periphery, it seems to me that the star detail would suggest a grade more like ChVF. Thus, the central detail is due to strike and not wear.

    Onto the lousy eye appeal issue, as with that 1800 dollar... Many coins with lousy eye appeal get slabbed. It is, unfortunately, a part of the industry.

    All in all, I think it is worth mentioning that ED's (in fact, all Bust coinage) are VERY hard to grade properly. The range of subjectivity is very wide.

    EVP
     
  13. Reid Goldsborough

    Reid Goldsborough New Member

    GDJMSP, good point about NCS. When it first launched, NGC, PCGS, and other put out a brochure about it. But you're right. It's a separate entity.

    evillageprowler, yep, grading is subjective, particularly with early coins. I feel that with the market grading that's used (in which overall eye appeal is paramount), it doesn't matter much if lack of detail is from wear or strike. If the detail isn't there, it's not there, and eye appeal suffers. Just my view.
     
  14. laz

    laz New Member

    "it doesn't matter much if lack of detail is from wear or strike. If the detail isn't there, it's not there, and eye appeal suffers. Just my view." Reid Goldsborough

    Well,I guess,but you can also have a weakly struck coin grading BU and that doesn't have anything to do with the grade.Grading is simply the measure of wear that any given coin has recieved.Otherwise,a die trial grading BU moght recieve a net grade of VG8 Just a little food for thought,we aren't talking about strikes when discussing grades,we are discussing wear,pure and simple.~ Jim
     
  15. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I'd have to disagree with you laz. BU is a generic term only - meaning as I'm sure you know - Brilliant Uncirculated. Yes - you can have a BU coin that is weakly struck. But no - BU has absolutely nothing to do with a coins grade. What's more - for a coin to be classified as BU - it has no wear at all. That is what uncirculated means.

    But strike on the other hand is one of the primary grading criteria used by all of the grading services - the ANA - every coin dealer I ever met - every coin collector I ever met - and every professional numismatist I ever even heard of.

    And there are 11 seperate grades of uncirculated - not just 1. And none of these 11 grades can show any wear at all. And this is where strike quality comes into the picture. So yes - strike matters a great deal when grading a coin.
     
  16. Crito

    Crito New Member

    Now I have to disagree, there are plenty of coins in lower MS grades with cabinet friction and bag wear. The way they differentiate is based on breaks in the luster, which indicates wear from handling.

    And Reid is absolutely correct about provenance. The Adams 1804 Bust Dollar is obviously a 45, the only remaining luster is in the protected areas around the stars. Yet NGC upgraded it to a 50. So PCGS had to one-up them by regrading it a 58. That coin will never have full luster, doesn't matter how weakly struck it is.

    And they wonder why I get pissed when the undergrade my 100% full luster AU58's :eek:

    [​IMG]
     
  17. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    A good point Crito - I agree. I should have been more specific and said wear from circulation.

    As for provenance having a bearing on a coins grade - perhaps. It's a debatable subject and one that none of the grading services will ever admit to if they are guilty of it.

    But for the coin you mention - I think it far more likely that the upgrades are due more to inconsistent grading standards ( the standards becoming looser over the years ) than it is due to provenance or the coins pedigree.
     
  18. laz

    laz New Member

    Ah but Brilliant Uncirculated is indeed a grade.My statement was that a weakly struck coin could grade BU. Uncirculated is even broken down into smaller grades (ie:MS60,MS61,ect) this isn't grading? :roll: You better break the news to PCGS :lol: a few services,I'd agree. No,seriously,of course BU is a grade,as much as VF or XF. Within each there's room for movement.XF goes from XF40 - XF49 technically,though circulated grades seldom get broken down numerically,I do see choice XF 45 quite often.,anf Ch.VF35 so I guess VF and XF are "generic" too :?: I can't agree there,at the average uncirculated level it reverses like algebra and negative numbers.Grading goes from 01 basil state to MS70 which in theory is the perfect coin. Technically grading is the state of preservation overall. As to the other commends,contact marks are not really wear,and cabinet rub reduces a coins grade to AU. ~ Jim
     
  19. Reid Goldsborough

    Reid Goldsborough New Member

    I think we need to define our terms. The above is the definition of "technical grade." But a coin's "market grade" involves a lot more than just wear -- overall eye appeal, which factors in strike, luster, toning, scratches, stains, etc. The grading services today all practice market grading. That's how a circulated coin, an AU-58 for wear, can be graded MS-63 (for better or worse).
     
  20. kaparthy

    kaparthy Well-Known Member


    No, what you call "grading an AU-58 as an MS-63" is an example of egregious error on their part -- no matter how "common" that might be.

    I took the ANA Grading Course and passed it with high honors. I also watched the video from J.P. Martin -- or as much of it as I could put up with. NOTHING in either case supports what you said. In point of fact, TECHNICAL grading is the first pass, the bottom line, the basis for market grading. If a coin does not have the technical grade, it cannot get the market grade. Market grading only downgrades a coin's technical grade.

    Where some people get confused -- and misuse the term "market grade" -- is in understanding the details of the Minting process. Entire runs of dates and whole series are known for weak strikes. The Mint reduces the pressure to get more strikes out of their dies. The Saint and the Peace Dollar are classic examples of that. Another perfect example is the Bust Half in which so much metal flows into that big bosom that less is available for the Eagle on the reverse. Large Cents were often struck on inferior planchets. There are many other examples, As a result, a coin from a series or year known for weak strikes or other problems will have allowance for that built into its true technical grade and a coin with _apparently_ AU detail is known to be and is graded to be Uncirculated, which it truly and objectively is.

    If you can quote me from the PCGS or ANA or Photograde or Alan Hager books or an ANA Grading Course or your notes from ANA Grading Seminar you attended to show that a technical AU-58 can get an MS-63 because it has luster, strike, flash, and eye appeal, I will stand corrected. I will not change my own persnal opinion, but I will accept it as fact that the market makers have the opinion you ascribe to them.
     
  21. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    OK laz - here's the list of grades used by the ANA. The grading companies use the same list - even if not the same standards.

    http://www.coinzone.com/CoinResources/article.asp?article=41

    Now you find and point out to me where BU is listed as one of the grades. Then I'll agree with you that BU is a grade and not a generic term.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page