6th Coin There has been as usual, many auctions which have been url-ed on ebay to draw attention to a specific point or discussion as to value or lack thereof. Most often the photos are not the best. I would like to offer as a lesson in coin buying in this post. I am not the teacher, the posters will be teaching and learning at the same time. This coin is not for sale. It is the example used. This coin is graded, BB, or "detail" by a big 4 TPG. The photos are taken through plastic. It is not RAW. So pretend this is the listing I have put on my auction, and then post what you think as to price and condition. After some action , I will tell you the results. AGAIN, this is a pretend auction I will not sell this coin. In financial groups it is called "paper money" so you can trade stocks on paper and not lose your money until you are ready. Pretend ad: :smile ================================================== = Wow! High Grade 1832 Capped Bust Half Dollar, sm. letters. Grading is subjective. Use my photos to make your decision. Taken out of Granny's safe deposit box! Looks good to me. Buy it now for $ 295.00 or best offer. Ok, what do you think? offer grading/ condition/ price/ suggestions and why you say so. It has already been to a TPG and back, so you won't offend or anything. Again this is not an offer to sell, nor any offer at all, it is a pretend learning experience. A lab practical if you would. Jim ( Granny :smile)
vf-20, lot of business on the fields, I am a sucker for capped bust halves but I would not go above 80 for this one, it might have had a harsh cleaning in its 173 year life, heck I have had a few harsh cleanings and I aint even 60 yet. I might think differently about this coin once I get my books. Till then it costs me nothing to be conservative
A medium of exchange, a store of value, a unit of account Yet another Bust Half. Bust Half coins are easy to find in high grade because banks used them as physical assets. They sat in bags and did not circulate. At the same time, the US Mint hubbed only Miss Liberty and the Eagle. All other die details were added by hand, thus creating a myriad of die varieties. The coin is a favorite of "Bust Half Nuts," aficiandos with their own little areas of collecting as important to them as Conder Tokens, Late Roman Copper or Wooden Nickel Good-Fors. I mean, it's a cute coin and all, but it's not like, you know, a City Thaler, or a Silver Art Bar... Book Review -- THE ULTIMATE GUIDE TO ATTRIBUTING BUST HALF DOLLARS by Glenn R. Peterson, MD. (2000. Money Tree, Rocky River, Ohio) This book belongs on the shelf of every collector of American coins. Brad Karoleff's "Introduction" alone, explaining the history of the coin is worth the cover price. Since modern collecting leans heavily to errors and varieties, any collector of any series can benefit from the scientific methodology for identifying die marriages. Dr. Peterson's work sets the standard for the coming century. These large silver coins were the mainstay of America's trade and commerce in the early 1800s. So many are affordable in high grade because banks used them for their hard money reserves and they were stored in bags in vaults. In the early 1800s, only the major devices on a coin -- Miss Liberty and the Eagle -- were "hubbed" from master dies. Then every letter, numeral and star was placed individually and punched by hand. As a result varieties and errors abound. If you have a Red Book, then you know the previous standard references on Bust Halves cited there: M. L. Beistle (1929) and Overton (1967, 1980). However, most of the varieties in those books are described in words. Attributing a Bust Half could take an hour. The new book by Glenn Peterson has over 700 high-quality photographs most of them enlargements. Other illustrations are skillful engineering drawings. As a result, you can sit down with a tray of Bust Halves and identify a variety in a matter of minutes. Peterson follows the Overton catalog in his numbering. THE ULTIMATE GUIDE TO ATTRIBUTING BUST HALVES provides a year-by-year catalog. Each chapter begins with an overview of American history for that year. Also, each chapter begins with a large, professional engineering drawing of the coin with its areas of interest called out. The book cost about $100 -- $99.95 plus shipping and handling for hardcover and $89.95 for spiral bound. The price may seem high. However, there is no better book about Bust Halves. Even if you are not an active collector of Bust Halves by variety, this book is unsurpassed as example of how to scientifically investigate any coin's production. My primary interest in numismatics is Ancient Greek. This book about Bust Halves has already paid for itself by teaching me how to look at any coin's details. The book is available from The Money Tree 1260 Smith Court, Rocky River, Ohio 44116 phone (440) 333-3444 fax (440) 333-4463
Not a series that I follow but I'd venture a guess in the XF range. Clear details on the shield and eagle on the reverse. Full sharp Liberty and the curls in the hair have lots of detail. The broach at the shoulder contains good detail. Price -- I'm going to guess it's in the $180.00 range.
Looks XF45+++, $220 is my bid. I believe the coin is likely dipped, because of the washover look of the reverse and crud in the devices, but the obverse still has more luster than many AUs. Overall eye appeal better than most of the AUs listed below, though the technical grade might well be XF45. Teletrade comparison coin #1 PCGS 45 $150 http://www.teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=2731&lot=1521&imagetype=j2 coin #2 NGC 50 $230 http://www.teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=2729&lot=1320&imagetype=j2 coin #3 NGC 53 $280 http://www.teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=2717&lot=1734&imagetype=j2 coin #4 ANACS 60 details, cleaned $320 http://www.teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=2732&lot=1914&imagetype=j2
Hey Jim, I would grade this EF45 - AU53 general I know however there was a spot of concern for me that would make me walk away all together. It is the nose, I can not tell if it is doubled or if it is crusty at the bridge of her nose. With counterfeits being what they are, unless I had some peoples opinions that I respected, told me to purchase this coin. I would be moving on. When in doubt ask or walk that is my motto.
I believe xf details, but it looks bright and hairlined from a cleaning, imo. suggested price- $99.95
I think the bridge of the nose is picking up some reflected yellow color from the light source cover. Here are 3 with different orientations. You can see the surfaces a little better. Jim
Jim you're too good at this OK, here's my take on the coin. Let's see if I can screw this one up as badly as I have the rest It has long been my opinion that the TPG's, all of them, routinely over-grade these coins. The written standards are much more lenient than the ANA standards. But even given that, seldom are the written PCGS standards even followed, the coins, as a general rule, are even over-graded according to them. Especially in the lower grades. There is no question in my mind that this coin has been cleaned, the question is, has it been harshly cleaned ? But given what I can see in the pics I would have to say no. Now Jim you're kind of throwing a curve ball here with your asking price. Normally I would say the TPG graded this coin AU55 based on the amount of wear and remaining luster. But the asking price is more in line with AU53, even if it is just a tad high for that grade. So my guess is gonna have to be the TPG said 53. Personally, I'd say 45 all day long.
Result: Genuine , altered surface -.94 Ok, this coin was slabbed as Genuine -.94 Altered surfaces. I have yet to find any official description as to exactly what this means. They indicate such things as thumbing, moving metal, whizzing, which I can understand OK, but don't see that under microscopic ~ unless it is in photo 2 or 3 below. Chemical alteration seems also to be a "94" possibility such as sulfide treatment ( darken or tone) or cyanide ( lighten- detone) or perhaps over-dipping. I have never seen a coin myself that had admitted cyanide damage, so I am not sure what that would look like beside "dipped white". My suspicions is over dipping or loss of luster/flow lines due to chemical action if it has to be anything. I am not an apologist, so I can admit, I DON'T see any reason for a .94 myself. If any of you do, please give your observations. I would accept a .91 cleaned, as there is some evidence of an old cleaning, but not harsh enough to warrant a .91. I am not whining, just can't find anything. This is my best details and wear wise. Better than my AU 50 by a long shot, so I would value it close to AU55. With the genuine , Granny would be over estimating, but it sure fooled me in hand. I have marked with green arrows where maybe there was something detected. close up of the areas. On the reverse, these are the only areas of possible alteration I could find. Actually I like the coin, that is why it is staying with me. Trying to be objective, I would have bought it @ about $250-270 as it is. Thanks for your participation! Jim COMING NEXT A LINCOLN !!!!!! BY REQUEST from one who is tired of halves.
Jim one of the things I never liked about PCGS is their inconsistency in this area. It soemtimes seems like they use the dartboard method when it comes to determining if a coin gets bagged or not. You can submit a coin 1 time and it comes back bagged. Submit it again the same day you get it back from them and it's slabbed. There have even been several cases of coins submitted in original Mint pliofilm, (original Mint sets) where the coins get bagged. And then slabbed a couple of weeks later. The very same coins. There is no rhyme or reason it seems. Now this certainly doesn't happen all the time. But it happens often enough to definitely make me skeptical.
Another fantastic thread! Your closeup photos are excellent. I can't exactly see what is "wrong" there either; sometimes I think the "altered surfaces" thing is shorthand for "it doesn't look right, can't put my finger on it, but I've gotta grade another (insert large #) coins in the next hour,so Gennie it and let's move along.." From what I can see in the images, the luster looks xf-AU 50ish in my very uneducated opinion, perhaps the graders could not reconcile that with the apparent details on the coin. (I never get tired of looking at the old classic silver coins, so after the appetite of the Linkies is sated, please bring on some more meaty silver like this!!)
Jim as always good lesson. I look forward to the penny I normally crash and burn on those, but I am always willing to learn. Thank you for taking the time. It is much appreciated.
