cleaned?

hey everyone! i know i have been loading you guys up with questions lately but i have another one. i haven't purchased coins from ebay yet as i have been holding off till i learned more. I was wondering if anyone could give me some tips on spotting signs of cleaning polishing and artifical toning in ebay pics. I would really hate to overpay for something and i do not want any cleaned coins. Thanks in advance for any advice. Also, is there anything else i should be looking for in ebay pics?

 

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Quite frankly, my advice is not to buy from eBay. It seems the ripoff artists outnumber the legitimate dealers anymore.

Coin shows and reputable dealers are the best sources. Sometimes you may find a good coin / price at a pawn shop, but they usually don't know much about coins and tend to grade them well above where they should be graded (and hence, raise the price too high).

 

A good read. There are others......

http://www.pcgs.com/articles/article_view.chtml?artid=2316&universeid=313

 

thanks for the info the only problem i am having is there arnt many dealers near me. only one that i know of and i haven't had a chance to go but from what i have heard most if not all of their coins are slabbed and in MS or PR and are older coins so the price tags are pretty large ut i plan on going in soon to see for myself.

 

You shouldn't buy ungraded coins on eBay because it is too easy for lowlife sellers to photoshop the images or just take bad or blurry photos to mislead the buyers. There is usually nothing wrong with buying certified coins on eBay, but you should limit it only to NGC or PCGS slabs. You also want to be sure that the images posted are the actual coin you will receive and that the seller accepts returns. Some sellers will not accept returns on certified coins.

Chris

 

Smart move. Buy your coins from coin shops in your area, coin shows, etc. Never off eBay, it's a high risk no one should take.

 

If you are restricted to the internet for your purchases then a wretched hive of scum and villainy, er, I mean Ebay should be the last option. There are many reputable dealers that maintain an online store front.

 

is there any of these reputable shops you could recommend? i found some but dont really know their reputation so any you could recommend would be great i just found out about another dealer in my area that i am going to visit soon. Hopefully he will have some lower priced coin that i will be able to afford. I will let you know how it turns out

 

Hello and welcome to the hobby. I'm fairly new myself.

I'm in the KC area, and it's slim pickings here, unless you like Pawn shops, so I'm going to "fess up" here and admit that I have bought several coins off Ebay. For the most part, I've had okay luck, but I've also bought a couple of Morgan dollars that turned out to be cleaned. (cheap coins anyway)

Live and learn...I'm re-evaluating my Ebay policy as I type.

 

Wolf, I'm a pretty small collector and of the few coins I buy most come from my local dealer I trust. I do have a few places online I like but wouldn't feel comfy recommending them yet.

There are more than a few dealers that post here but it may not be apparent since CT frowns on dealer self promotion. The collectors universe forum has a ton of dealers and they are not shy about promoting their business over there. I'd say read both places for awhile and I'm sure you would find a few dealers you would be comfortable doing business with. For example I've never bought anything from The Penny Lady but reading her posts here and at CU I'd have no problem with spending some money at her site (if I had any money to actually spend that is, lol).

 

thanks for the info. i understand you not recommending anyone and your right being here for the little bit of time i have been i can truely say i cant really figure out who the dealers are

 

This is basically the advice I would give. Do a little homework before you buy.
I have a bid now on an NGC 1950-D nickel which I am not worried about.

 

I wouldn't completely write off EBay. There are still a lot of great coins on EBay to be had.
Just protect yourself, I use the following steps to stay away from unscrupulous dealers and rip-off artists.

The dealers I buy from on EBay all have return policies, which will allow you to send the coin back within a given amount of time. I also check the feedback ratings of sellers. Since EBay's feedback system inherently favors the seller, all I need to see is one negative or neutral feedback, and I'll stay away.
I check the photos of coins meticulously, if the pic is blurred, I won't buy. If the photo is high quality, you can usually tell if the coin has been cleaned. Some dealers have great photos. You can tell they've been done professionally. The enlarge and zoom features also help.

I have bought coins that upon receipt, were obviously photo shopped, but it's been the exception, not the rule. I sent those coins back, and stayed away from the dealer for any future transactions.

The flip side of the coin, pun intended, is that occasionally you can score a really great deal on EBay. I view it as part of the learning experience that makes this hobby so much fun.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the other way around, now? Sellers no longer have the advantage over the buyer when it comes to feedback. It used to be that a seller could "hold you hostage" and not post positive feedback until the buyer posted positive feedback, first. I believe now the seller is at the mercy of the buyer where this is concerned.

Chris

 

Yes, I believe this may be a recent change, but I don't think all sellers are aware of it, or perhaps some are still not following this new policy.
I'm currently being 'held hostage' by a seller. I've paid for the coin, I have yet to receive it, and he has not left feedback.
It's a good change in IMO, but you could probably only enforce it in the event of a conflict.

 

thanks for all of the info everyone it is very helpful. I will probably take the advice of posting in the open forum to find other dealers. Thanks again!

 

In my opinion eBay is a good place to buy coins, if you know what to look for. Buying a slabbed coin graded by PCGS, NGC, ANACS, or ICG can almost always guarantee a legitimate purchase. Another way to buy is buy from a merchant that sells many many coins at a time that has a high feedback rating and takes amazing pictures. One name that I recall is GSC (greatsoutherncoins). This dealer takes great pictures and sells great coins. Other than that I would avoid almost ALL slabbed coins from 3rd tier grading parties and from amatuer sellers as they might have over-graded a LOT and/or not providing you with the adequate information in order to fully understand EXACTLY what you are getting. If you went to a coin shop/dealer, they will most likely let you examine whatever coin you wish to purchase before you hand over the cash, you may pay more at a dealer but this way you know EXACTLY what you are getting.

 

Wow, interesting article from PCGS. The threads in CT all seem to say AT is not considered doctoring in PCGS's lawsuit, yet here's a quote from their article that says it is or could be.

"Artificial toning, by contrast, tends to be less attractive and is used all too often to conceal important flaws that could lower a coin's value if these flaws were visible. This, in fact, is one of the major ways in which coins are doctored: chemicals are used not to remove something from these coins, but to hide or obscure a problem".