I was hoping you could help me with a couple of coins. Sorry, no pictures available. I bought an 1801 large cent in VG8 condition, but it is so shiny I have to suspect it’s been cleaned. Am I probably correct? If so, how many points should I deduct? Also, I have an 1869 Indian head cent that I am almost sure has been cleaned—shiny with a rough surface, with a small spot on the reverse. However, it is in F12 condition (“liberty” shows in its entirety). How many points should I deduct? Thanks.
Some people will "net" grade a coin to account for cleaning. ANACS also does this - i.e., AU Details, Cleaned - Net VF-20. Others will just say VG-8 Cleaned or F-12 Harshly Cleaned. The extent of the cleaning determines how less desirable the coin is but no net grade is given. I tend towards the latter (no net grading). Grading can already be somewhat subjective - add in a need to net grade something based on how much cleaning has hurt a coin's appearance just adds even more subjectivity in my opinion. Ken
Sorry kid but I have to subtract all points for no pic. Have a friend take and post them for you it's really not that hard.
For generations now it has been the practice that problem coins are considered ungradeable. There's a reason for that - and your questions are that reason. You see, when you assign a grade to a coin you first have to go through a process to figure out just what that grade should be. And you do that by following grading standards. But there are no grading standards for problem coins and that is why they are ungradeable. So there is no answer to the question - how many points should I deduct ? Now some people will tell you that coins are not graded anyway, they are priced. So with problem coins you don't deduct points, you deduct dollars. But how many dollars you deduct varies widely from collector to collector. You can take any problem coin you want, offer it for sale. And what you will get is offers all over the map. In fact, many collectors would make no offer at all - they wouldn't even take the coin if you offered it to them for free ! And for this reason there is no set amount of dollars you can deduct either. The only person who can set a price on a problem coin is the person buying it. But then that price only has any meaning to them and to them alone. And that of course brings us right back to where I started - problem coins are ungradeable.
Great explanation there. The scarcity of the cleaned coin will also play a roll. One time I was watching a 1839-O quarter eagle in an NGC details slab at Heritage. It was graded Genuine but harshly cleaned. AU details. Still looked great. With a mintage of only 17,781 I thought this might be a chance to grab one at a much discounted price. I was thinking 5 maybe $600. I believe it ended up selling for over $1800! That's just an example of what GD was saying. Cleaned coins can have wild, unpredictable pricing. Everybody will have their own opinion. I'd normally try to avoid them at all costs, unless it was an opportunity to own a true rarity. The discount depends on the rarity. It may not be as bad for an 1869 as it would be for a 1909 with many more uncleaned examples readily available. But it still can be harsh. 50-60% off is more likely than 10%. There's no accurate answer to be obtained from this forum. All you could do is list them on ebay with an outrageous reserve (if you didn't want to sell them) and see what the market bids them up to.
This answer may not fit your circumstance but it may help you plug in a value number to your coin. For insurance purposes, coins must have some kind of assessed value. I will drop a coin one hole grade, not just one number, for coins with questionable conditions. However, I would not intentionally buy a coin with these conditions that wasn't discounted to begin with. And not at all if the coin is commonly available. So if it's VF drop it to F. If it's F drop it to VG. ect... Lean towards the critical side when you evaluate, your less apt to be disappointed.
