Cimmerian Bosporos gold Stater

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by princeofwaldo, Jan 7, 2022.

  1. princeofwaldo

    princeofwaldo Grateful To Be eX-I/T!

    Read David Vagi's recent article about coins of the Bosporos in the Numismatist recently and found it fascinating. Was on page 118 of this month's issue. It included a photograph of the coin below.

    After poking around on Coin Archives, I found another example. Looks like the same dies to me, one obverse a bit better struck than the other. What are the chances of two mint state examples surviving 2,400 years struck from the same dies? Additionally, I didn't see any circulated or lesser examples, though Coin Archives alone is not a tool to rule out the existence of others.

    Provenance all aside, seems kind of unusual. Or do the rest of you think they are struck from similar but still different dies?

    2.jpg 1.jpg
     
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  3. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    Die matches are not at all unusual in ancient numismatics.
     
  4. princeofwaldo

    princeofwaldo Grateful To Be eX-I/T!

    Thank you. Very useful information.
     
  5. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    As Roman Collector said :).

    For a much better picture of the first coin, see this thread. The coin belongs to CT member @AncientJoe
     
  6. AncientJoe

    AncientJoe Well-Known Member

    I'm not seeing this article in this month's issue (or maybe I'm looking in the wrong version as my digital version of "The Numismatist" from the ANA is only 100 pages long). Perhaps a screenshot or link to the article could be shared, either here or via PM?

    In any event, die matches are indeed common in ancient coins, especially in rare types where relatively few dies were produced.

    TIF linked to my thread but here's the image I took for ease of access:

    Pantikapaion.jpg
     
  7. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    Wow! absolutely amazing!
     
  8. gsimonel

    gsimonel Well-Known Member

    That's not unusual for gold coins. They were usually hoarded. Gold was too valuable for everyday circulation.
     
  9. Cucumbor

    Cucumbor Well-Known Member

    Those are absolute stunners, I love them !!

    Considering the rarest ones, they were probably struck from only one, maybe two, pair of dies. Finding two from the same dies is not the issue, but finding two such coins is unlikely :)

    Q
     
  10. princeofwaldo

    princeofwaldo Grateful To Be eX-I/T!

    Might have been from last month's edition, but a recent edition of the Numismatist in any case. I remember it was on page 118 because I emailed a friend about it. I sometimes get behind reading journals and what-not, then end-up a month behind when reading them.

    Agree with the analysis so far, that especially for very rare ancients the existence of only one set of dies serves as an authenticator for the coin. If another heretofore unknown die variety emerged it would be much more suspect of fakery.

    I think the key here is that the coin is so rare. Were it a group of mint state Alexander III AV Staters all struck from the same dies it would be much more suspect, especially in the absence of any provenance.
     
  11. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    Hoards are sometimes found with many coins struck from the same dies. My most recent research involves the Paeonian Hoard, sold by Sotheby in 1969. In that case, a handful of dies accounts for close to a thousand coins of the Patraos type. That particular hoard also includes a smaller number of Alex III staters that share dies. A single die could last for thousands of coins.
     
  12. princeofwaldo

    princeofwaldo Grateful To Be eX-I/T!

    Actually, I think that David Vagi article appeared in Coin World, not the Numismatist. Sorry for any confusion.
     
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