Below is an 1896 A French Indochina Piastre I recently purchased, and it's got some strong details, particularly in the face area. But, obviously there's a chopmark on the obverse, but you can tell that this obverse chopmark caused some protrusion on the reverse. If a TPG doesn't assign Details grades for having chopmarks, will the reverse damage count as a separate damage, or would that be "double counting"? Does anyone know if this chopmark (Chinese?) was done in any official capacity, e.g. by the Chinese or Vietnamese government? If so, it seems that the original coins are merely planchets for more of a counter-strike, even though it's technically damage to the original coin. Lastly, from online slab examples I've seen, NGC assigns coins with chopmarks with a Details - Chopmark grade. But, IIRC, PCGS will still assign a numeric grade to these coins. Assuming that these are true, does this mean that it's better to send chopmarked coins to PCGS than to NGC, in order to get an actual grade? Or are NGC slabbed "Details - Chopmarked" coins seen as MS-60 value-wise (i.e. chopmarked wear maximizes grade ceiling to MS-60)? Or are there other considerations? Thanks in advance!
I believe you are right. I know I have seen numerically headed PCGS chopmark coins. Logic would say that all parts of the mark are inclusive (rear is part of the front), but this is a TPG...
They do on some, others they don't. I can't remember the exact details of the thread but on the CU forum they had a pretty big thread a while back about chopmarks and what generally gets details vs straight grades
27.00 grams, 39mm, and non-magnetic. ------------------------------------------------- I called the TPGs and here's what they say. NGC: Details holder no matter what PCGS: Numeric possible, depends on the chopmark and if it's recognized -------------------------------------------------- Is there a resource somewhere to ID Chinese chopmarks? I Googled it but I think that my search terms were off or it's not easily available. Thanks.
How much do you all discount coins the PCGS coins that they give a numerical grade to with chop marks on them? Seems a lot of the trade dollars I look at are chop marked and not sure what I should be paying for them if I'm a player.
I think that it's a niche sort of deal. People who like them, buy them without really considering it as damage. That said, from what I've seen online, there are host of criteria within chopmarked coins, so I'm unsure what the depth and breadth of how those factor into the price of chopmarked coins. Whereas, those who see chopmarks as damage no matter what will probably either ignore purchasing the coin, or deduct as much as perhaps a love token chopmark. I say these things based on my limited knowledge of chopmarked coins, and the low price I paid for my chopmarked coin.
This is very true, some seem to bring premiums though I've never really followed it close enough to figure out which ones
Coins weren't marked with chopmarks by governments, they were marked by merchants, traders, and moneychangers, often right on the docks when a ship sailed into port. The sole purpose of chopmarks was to indicate that the purity of the silver had been tested and verified by the private individual marking the coin with his chopmark. And, that the weight of the coin was correct. Chopmarks were in that sense a signature. When a government marked a coin it was called a countermark. And the purpose of a countermark was not to verify the purity of the silver, but rather to establish the value of that specific coin in that specific country. And those are two very different things. That's it in a nutshell. It's determined by each individual based on their personal feelings about it. Not by anything else. So you're the only one who can decide what they are worth to you. To me personally, chopmarks are absolutely damage. They were made by a merchant taking a punch, putting it against the face of a coin and striking it with a hammer. And this no different than if you or I were to take a punch with an English letter on it and marking a coin with that. Now is there any doubt that if you did that, that it would be considered damage ? What I'm trying to point out is that the only difference is the language and the letter characters. So if one is damage, all are damage. Now, as I mentioned, the value of coins like this is determined by personal feelings. And this is in effect no different many other aspects of numismatics. Think about it, toning, errors, and even some varieties - the value of all these things is based on personal feelings. Some people see toning as damage, while others love it. And there is absolutely no question that things like die cracks, being struck off center, spelling errors, missing letters, etc are flaws, every single one of them are flaws, mistakes, screw-ups. And yet some love them and will pay premiums for them. While others will turn up their noses. I guess what I'm trying to point out is that it's not a question of right or wrong, but merely a question of personal preference - taste.
