China Series - Fall of the Tang Dynasty

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Loong Siew, Oct 12, 2015.

  1. Loong Siew

    Loong Siew Well-Known Member

    Shi Siming 史思明 758-761

    De Yi Yuan Bao 得壹元寳

    Hartill 14.141. Ex Teutoburger. Very scarce.

    The reign of Emperor Xuan Zong 玄宗 of the Tang Dynasty marked a golden age of Tang cultural and economic achievement. Though his reign started with much achievement and success, his later reign witnessed a period of decline when the Emperor started losing control the reigns of power and indulged in his concubine, the famous Lady Yang Guifei. In addition, his poor judgement of character led to excessive military power bestowed to the treacherous Turkic general An Lushan 安禄山 who conspired with another general Shi Siming 史思明 to launch a devastating rebellion on the Dynasty. Though the rebellion was eventually quelled, the Tang Dynasty never recovered it's former glory and led to it's steady decline and eventually demise.

    This coin is a heavy coin issued when Shi Siming Established his own government and started minting these to replace the incumbent Kaiyuans. However these were quickly replaced when in retrospect Shi Siming felt the meaning of the characters (transl: Achieving one treasure) carried inauspicious connotations. The replacement Shun Tian Yuan Bao 顺天元寶 was significantly more common as the meaning was favored (transl: Adherence to the heavens treasure).
    IMG_4823-1.jpg IMG_4824-1.jpg
     
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  3. Mikey Zee

    Mikey Zee Delenda Est Carthago

    I love your posts and historical information---you fill an area of collecting here that few of us have ever entered.
     
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  4. Loong Siew

    Loong Siew Well-Known Member

    You're most welcome. The more we can expand our knowledge base the better.. just as much as I enjoy the historical write ups on other cultures.. :)
     
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  5. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    Wha? ...

    Hey, there are no animals on that baby, LS ... but it is still pretty cool

    :rolleyes:

    => Ummm, one of these days, my friend ... I'm gonna outbid you on a coin-target!! (thanks for posting your wares)
     
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  6. Loong Siew

    Loong Siew Well-Known Member

    Hahaha... thanks @stevex6 ...you can go ahead and bid buddy.. I'm slowing down on my Chinese cash coins at the moment. . But still on the lookout for some nice Japanese :)
     
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  7. Magnus Maximus

    Magnus Maximus Dulce et Decorum est....

    Sounds like my kind of guy :vomit::wacky::D
    Great write up LS, keep it up!
     
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  8. FitzNigel

    FitzNigel Medievalist

    I love this story of Emperor Xuan Zong, Yang Guifei, and An Lushan - I make my students read "the Song of Everlasting Sorrow" each year when we cover the Tang Dynasty. I may need to look in to getting one of these coins...
     
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  9. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    One thing that I find extremely interesting in Chinese numismatics is how you can tell, simply by weight and size, when in a reign a coin was struck. Every single new government casts very heavy, (proper), weight cash coins. I believe they do this to show how the people how they will be fair. Then, as time goes on, the cash coins simply shrink in weight and size until a new government comes to power. It happens so commonly as to be the predominant story in Chinese coinage. Therefor, this rebel casting heavy coins is not surprising at all to me. :)
     
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  10. Loong Siew

    Loong Siew Well-Known Member

    Cool!! You must be a history teacher @FitzNigel ... I'm impressed you knew of this poem/song... It's a Chinese classic and a touching love story.

    As for an equivalent, you should try to get a De Yi if you can. However, if not, a Shun Tian is equally the same in terms of their association with that chapter in Tang history...
     
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  11. Loong Siew

    Loong Siew Well-Known Member

    Actually weight for chinese cast coins is but a measurement for official standard.. Most cast cash except for the long lasting series such as Ban Liang, Wu Zhu and Kai Yuans all have regnal titles or inscriptions unique to the period. The shrinkage and debasement you see are often associated with tumultuous periods in chinese history or if there are economic instability which necessitated such actions. You can see it most prevalent during the Han to Pre-Tang periods...
     
  12. Loong Siew

    Loong Siew Well-Known Member

    For instance, note the evolution of the Wu Zhus from the western Han to the Sui below...

    IMG_4716-1.jpg IMG_0717-1.jpg IMG_4725-1.jpg IMG_4728-1.jpg
     
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  13. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    I understand sir how most advertised who was in charge at the time. However, don't you see the trend that the longer a dynasty is in power, the less and elss copper is in the coins? It was China's form of debasement. It may sound silly to reduce a copper coin by half a gram, but considering the tens of millions being put out, and the fact metal used to be more valuable than today due to mining modern equipment, and you have real ability to steal from your subjects with copper debasement like gold and silver debasement in the west.
     
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  14. Loong Siew

    Loong Siew Well-Known Member

    Yeah.. you're right. The trend seems to be there. I guess that was the case of over inflation in the market and wars leading to hoarding of metals such as copper resulting in lack of supply too.
     
  15. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

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  16. Loong Siew

    Loong Siew Well-Known Member

    Yup.. looks like it. Although mine was appraised as a Shenlang Wu Zhu of the Jin 晋 Dynasty that succeeded the Han after the 3 kingdoms period. To be honest I can't really tell the subtle differences yet from the Zhao Bian as per link
     
  17. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    Yes, they physically cut some coins to make effectively half coins. Later they simply cast them as half coins, casting only the outer rings.
     
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