Cherrypicking Etiquette

Met a dealer at a show. Through our conversation and other internet correspondence, he discovered I'm a Morgan variety collector. He told me to stop at his shop and mentioned I could probably cherrypick some VAMs from him.

I finally made it to his shop and looked through a couple of boxes of Morgans. Picked up a couple that had interesting attributes, but I did not know what VAMs they were or if they even had a premium.

Not sure yet, but it looks like the $100 purchase is worth about $2000. I usually sell stuff like this so I can buy other dates/mints that I don't have.

I contacted the guy and told him what I thought I had found, that I was sending to PCGS for grading, and that I planned to sell them. I also told him that I would split the profit 50/50. He seems okay with it and I plan to follow through.

My question... am I being unfair, fair, or stupid? Several folks are telling me that I'm an idiot. I cherrypicked them and he knew I was a variety collector. I've been told that I should have kept my mouth shut and kept everything. One person told me that I'm not entitled to more than 20% of the profit. What say you?

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

With entirely no offense to you, but as a cherrypicker my self I would have to go with the idiot. You should have just said nothing, IMO.


Peter

 

Nevst, I feel that you should have not said anything, and I would say that you are certainly being more than fair.

 

I think you did the right thing, maybe 60/40 or 80/20 would have been more fair to you since your doing ALL the leg work, but you must keep in mind, I'm honest to a fault, LOL...

Take Care & Merry Christmas
Ben

 

I'm not offended. I want honesty. I think that's about 12 for "you're an idiot", 1 for "take no more than 20%", and 1 for "give him back the coins". I've cherrypicked from other people and never said a word. This guy was open and honest right up front. Sat me a desk with a light and loupe and let me have at it. I also want to go back.

On the flip side, the amount of money is large for me, but may be peanuts to him. I probably could have kept quiet without any issues.

 

I concur.
He invited you and excepted your payment.
Though with such a nice profit I might have bought him a nice ($100ish) coin.

 

NESVT,

Everyone has his or her own code of ethics and moral standards do what you think is right. In this case it is only your opinion that counts if you are comfortable with your decision then it is the right thing to do.

BRUCE.
P.S. As for me I think you are doing the right thing.

 

I wouldn't say your an idiot...I'd say overly generous. Its your money, you made it by knowning what to look for (even if you had known the varieties had a premium you by no means need to tell him). I personally probably wouldn't have said anything. However, by telling him you may open the door to go through more coins to make simular profits.

At the end of the day, you should do what ever you think is right...thats whats really important.

 

Personally, I would have kept my mouth shut. I think your're being overly generous splitting the profit with him. You did all of the attribution work, you deserve all of the profits.

 

I would have to say I would have went W00t! and taken the greedy route and said nothing at all. But I have to commend the kindness in what you did and maybe he will remember that kindness in the future.

 

Believe it or not you will be rewarded in the future by what you are doing now.
BRUCE.

 

nesvt,

If you felt that this was the right thing to do, then it was right! However, most other Cherrypickers would not have done the same and many that I have seen, would have tried to get a better price on the coins, even though they knew that they had made some significant finds of high value.

When I purchase coins from people that call me or drop by the Flea Market, I can't in good conscious cheat them out of their' coins! Even if the person says that they will take $100 for the coins but I know that the coin are worth $500 or more, then I will pay them more for the coins. However, if I purchase coins from a Coin Dealer and know or find out that they are worth a lot more, I generally would not give him/her more in the event that the coins sold for a significant price over what I paid. I do have an exception to this rule and that might have been your reasoning as well and the exception would be, if the Coin Dealer was a small time or new Dealer that was struggling to stay in business and provide for his/her family. However, most of the Coin Dealers that I know, have been in the business for many years and most of them they make $50,000 to $250,000 transactions each and every week of the year. Many of these same Coin Dealers, have really cheated me when purchasing coins from me and cheat many, many others each an every week. Some of them even boast how they only paid $500 for a collection of coins that were worth $3,000 or more or paid only $800 to an elderly lady for her late husbands coin collection, that was worth $40,000. So, as you can see, I have very little sympathy for most Coin Dealers!


The Other, Other Frank

 

I think I agreee with most of the others on this. You have no moral obligation to share the money with this guy. But that fact that you are splitting it with him, I can respect, and its actually a pretty nice thing to do. I can't say that I would do the same. But thats cool. In the future though, I would keep the profit, because he is a professional dealer, right? so if he sells a coin for 100, and its worth 2,000 I think he should have known better and that is business.

 

I've found that when I go to cherrypick, I simply tell the dealer I collect specific die varieties, and would like to look through his stock. I also tell him, I will definitely purchase something even if I don't find something I am looking for. I also make sure that it is slow when I go in to look through his stuff. Most haven't even asked what I found, and were happy to make a sale.

 

I think it is good business practice to give the dealer a finders fee in this kind of a case. It keeps the joints lubricatd and makes your business partners (which is what coin dealers really are) feel that they have something to share in your sucesses.

How much is appropriate for a finders fee is another question. I'd make it a flat fee though and not a percentage. If you find something again in their store, they might refuse to sell. This is one of the major reasons to give a finders fee.

Ruben

 

If you walked into a dealer's store with a pile of Morgans, told him you knew nothing about the value of what you had, but needed to sell what you had, would you expect him to disclose varieties, and pay you for your coins fairly graded, though you knew nothing of grades or varieties? If the answer is yes, would you please pass on this dealer's name and location.

 

mcgrover,

Great Point! And the answer to the question is, no. At least, none of the Coin dealers that I know would do so! Just to let you know how some Coin Dealers can be, I offer the following which was my test of a certain Coin Dealer's honesty. I have an 1880-O Morgan Silver Dollar in MS-61 which is a VAM 43 (Double Ear with a Micro "O" Mintmark) Top 100 Variety which I took to a Coin Dealer that I have done a lot of business with in the past. I did not mention that it was a VAM 43 since I already knew that he collects as well as sells VAMs, told him that I needed the money and asked what he would give me for the coin. Well, he made no mention that the coin was a VAM 43 (even though I know that he picked up on the VAM as he exmained the coin for quite a long time with several loupes and his Coin Microscope) and he even had the gall to offer $30 for the coin which is way, way under the Grey Sheet Bid Price for the coin, even in MS-60. Since there are quite a few VAM collectors on this site, they know what the coin is worth and that is $200 in AU-58, $400 in MS-60 and $600 in MS-62. I was pretty miffed at his offer for the coin, even though it was only a test and told him that it would be a cold day in he** before I would sell it to him for that price as it was a VAM 43. I placed the coin back in my briefcase, walked out the door of his' shop and have never gone back or done business with him again.


The Other, Other Frank

 

nesvt:
You said: "Not sure yet, but it looks like the $100 purchase is worth about $2000. I usually sell stuff like this so I can buy other dates/mints that I don't have.

I contacted the guy and told him what I thought I had found, that I was sending to PCGS for grading, and that I planned to sell them. I also told him that I would split the profit 50/50. He seems okay with it and I plan to follow through."
First, how do you know what the value is? If you are using listed values, he and you will never get those numbers. Unless you are splitting the net profit.
Still, the Cherrypickers rule # 236, reads (in part) "Keep your mouth shut".
Cherrypicking is a time honored tradition of using superior knowledge to achieve a better result.
Should I have paid $40 (at the time) for a 1909 S in fine Lincoln cent that I later had slabbed as a 1909 S VDB and then given another $200 to the dealer?
Or the three 1858/7 Flying Eagle cents? Or the 1939 Jefferson Double dies? and others.
The answer is no, you took the chance, and spent your money and he made a profit from you, you simply worked harder and smarter.
Sorry, but, you have to do what you feel good with, I feel good keeping my gains, especially when know that the dealer has already made his profit.

 

I get VAM values from a few sources. VAMview records realized sale prices from eBay, Heritage, Teletrade, and other sales. The VAMview price guide was recently released and shows realized and estimated values. One of the two coins I purchased has no sale history in this high grade, so it's extrapolated. There are also other Top 100 and Hot 50 value sheets.

I think you have me confused with someone else.

I should point out that I've cherrypicked 600+ VAMs (Morgan and Peace dollars) over the last few years. I've never said a word. I felt different in this case because the dealer invited me in to his shop, sat me at a desk, and allowed me to examine his inventory. I also want to go back without any hard feelings on either side.

I agree with what GDJMSP said. I like the idea of checking out his inventory, identifying varieties, letting him do the sale side, and giving me a cut. Right now, I'm feeling I should have kept my mouth shut until I revisited his shop. At that time, I could have slipped him a few bucks.