Caracalla denarius- sharp portrait on a strange oblong-shaped flan

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Shea19, Nov 12, 2020.

  1. Shea19

    Shea19 Well-Known Member

    I recently added this rather unique-looking denarius of Caracalla. It was struck from a seemingly brand new obverse die and has a nice clear portrait, but it is on a strange-looking oblong-shaped flan. Something about this one really caught my eye, so I was very happy to win it, and even happier when I got it in hand.

    Here's the seller's photo and then mine (I've been working on my coin photography so any comments/suggestions would be appreciated).
    E44C7B82-2822-4E90-9522-791E4342D590.jpeg
    6053413E-8E61-4633-8C87-45BAB1D90502.jpeg
    Caracalla, AR Denarius, circa 213-217 A.D., Rome, (22mm.,3.02g.) Laureate head of Caracalla to right/ Rev. VENVS VICTRIX, Venus standing left, holding Victory and spear and leaning on shield set on helmet. RIC 311b.

    I'm not sure what it is that struck me about this one, but there's just something about having a sharp, high-relief portrait from a fresh die on a hot mess of a flan. The coin somehow manages to be both beautiful and ugly at the same time.

    I assume that this result just comes from the flan preparation (whoever at the mint was responsible for this one would have loved working in the Gallienus era). But for those of you with more expertise about the technical aspects of the preparation and striking, is it possible that something about the way this was struck could have had an effect on its shape? Or was this just poor quality control at the mint?

    Here's another photo of the coin in hand, which I think really highlights the shape.
    875C3CEA-429D-4299-838A-18A458513CE0.jpeg

    Please share your coins with irregular or oddly-shaped flans, your favorite Caracalla or Venus, or anything else relevant.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2020
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  3. happy_collector

    happy_collector Well-Known Member

    Beautiful Caracalla obverse portrait, in an unusual large flan.
     
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  4. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    That's a great-looking Caracalla, Shea19. The portrait is outstanding.

    The oblong flan puts me in mind of this Severus Alexander that I bought 30+ years ago:

    Severus Alexander - Den. PIETAS Columbus 1987 (0).jpg

    Severus Alexander Denarius
    (222-223 A.D.)
    Antioch or Eastern Mint

    IMP C M AVR S[EV AL]EXAND AVG, laureate, draped bust right / PIETAS AVG Pietas standing left, holding right hand over altar, incense box in left arm.
    RIC IV 292; BMCRE 1057.
    (2.75 grams / 19 x 16 mm)
     
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  5. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    Hilarious flan! And fantastic portrait!:artist:
    I don't have thug Caracalla buuuut I think we could tell early on that this one was bad to the bone
    share4007936682763126758.png
     
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  6. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    Oblong flans are not unusual in the third century. I've wondered if they were made by rolling metal through some sort of roller. Here are some oblong ones of Trebonianus Gallus in my collection:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Very cool, @Shea19 !

    Mine was so oblong, it took two boxes wide to entomb it!

    :D

    AR OCTAVIAN

    [​IMG]
    RImp Marc Antony & Octavian AR Quinarius 1.58g Military Mint Gaul 39BCE Concordia r Hands clasped caduceus Cr-529-4b Sear 1575 Syd-1195
     
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  8. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    I don't remember you sharing that beauty! Good artistry for the tiny area to work and beautifuuul toning :singing: of a VERY significant moment in history with a disastrous outcome for the Roman people, IMHO.
    Here's my Ebay cheap lot dumpster dive find of the type:woot::troll: Though, visually challenged, she deserves a better pic...
    My flan is also less silly
    20190327_115400_6D8BA529-E749-4399-9C32-08DDC6867FFF-469-00000051B054BFE8.png
     
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  9. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    Another 3rd Century oblong flan, this one for Otacilia Severa:

    Otacilia Severa Antoninianus with Concordia reverse.jpg
     
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  10. happy_collector

    happy_collector Well-Known Member

    I have one with oblong flan. Elagabalus, and Salus on reverse.
    s-l1600n.jpg
     
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  11. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

  12. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Thank you. I have it locked up at the bank. I plan to pull my collection, rephoto, attribute them all, etc sometime soon. Working on other life variables at this time.
     
  13. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    Oh! I was saying that mine needs a reshoot... but I'll happily enjoy other pictures of your mighty Quin.:snaphappy::woot:
     
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  14. Terence Cheesman

    Terence Cheesman Well-Known Member

    Years ago I owned this guy Claudius II Antoninianus Liberalitus reverse. What I thought the flan was a bit oblong I though the legend kind of followed the shape of the flan especially on the reverse. Xgothic6 (2).jpg
     
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  15. gogili1977

    gogili1977 Well-Known Member

    Nice portrait of Caracalla.
    Another Venus reverse:
    imgonline-com-ua-twotoone-aMkL2sbWafvY9NM7.jpg
     
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  16. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    I like the oval flan. I doubt the coin seemed as odd in its day as it does today to people used to the use of collars that insure round coins.
    Maximinus II, Rome mint
    ru4120bb1616.jpg
     
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  17. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    Some oval from different periods

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Dude, some day we are going to have to meet up and share each other's collection. I also want to see more of @Bing 's cool collection, too. It was a lot of fun going through a couple of his albums, and wish it were easier times for many other of us to meet and see collections in person.
     
  19. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    I think those Romans were way ahead of us making all those oblong coins. They must had a large National Parks system, and everyone put their coins in to commemorate their visits to the Barbarian National Parks along the borders. Similar to what we do today...
    :)

    upload_2020-11-13_5-25-59.png
    upload_2020-11-13_5-26-58.png

    This one is not TOO oblong, but it must have fallen out of the machine before it was done...

    upload_2020-11-13_5-29-6.png
    RR Servilius 136 BCE Roma Dioscuri galloping Sear 116 Craw 239-1
     
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  20. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

    Shea19, That is a very attractive denarius on a freak flan :D. I bought the coin pictured below at a bargain price because of the strange flan. I was amazed anyone would get this coin slabbed o_O, but oddly the slab shows off the weird protrusion of the flan remarkably well :smuggrin:. With all the weird flans posted on this thread it looks like the quality control inspectors must have been taking long breaks :p.
    62063 obv..jpg 62063 rev..jpg
     
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  21. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    A rather grumpy-looking Caracalla on an antoninianus

    caracalla.jpg
     
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