I'm looking to open a new collecting area for myself. Capped Bust Quarters (1831-1838) - Variety 2, has caught my eye. Why? -- It's a short set by the Red Book listing (10 coins) -- It's affordable for me in XF So I took a look at the eBay listings. Most of the coins there are darkly toned; I'm looking for medium to light toning. Are the ones on eBay the norm with respect to toning? OR Is it a dumping ground for darker coins? OR Is it poor photography? I'm going to take a look at Heritage archived coins and do a comparison.
A quick look in Heritage pretty much shows that, at least in XF, darker toning appears should be expected.
Could you post examples of what you refer to as "dark" and "light" toning? As a a general rule, yes - dark grey is the right color for Capped Bust silver. This is a sign of originality, and is highly prized by collectors. I don't collect the quarters, but I'll show some halves to illustrate below. When you see "light" toning, it tends to be more of a silver-grey, and is a sign the coin has been dipped, cleaned, wiped, or otherwise tampered with. Up to a certain extent, the TPGs will ignore these problems and slab them anyways - but I encourage you to avoid them. Originality is prized - an original coin will probably cost a little bit more, but it will be far more attractive, and far easier to re-sell for a strong price. Ebay is definitely a dumping ground, but you can find good stuff if you know what you are looking for. A lot of the dipped and washed coins that I mentioned above will wind up on Ebay, because they can't get rid of it anywhere else. However, there is plenty of quality material: the 1812 and 1829/7 shown below both came from Ebay. And yes, poor photography should be assumed - again, if you know what you are looking for, it will help you avoid that landmine as well. When I look for Capped Bust silver, this is the look I want:
Interesting question, I really never thought about it in a general sense. But I have a few bust quarters, and yes the ones that I believe are strictly untampered with are on the darker side. I think they are attractive anyway.....
physics-fan3.14 Your 1811 is mostly what I'm seeing. I like your 1812 because the design elements stand out (I notice the obverse is from a late state die). Your 1829 will probably end up being what I'm looking for. Here's the one I've got in my type set. It's AU-50. I think I'll use it as my guide to toning.
Contemplate how many decades of high-sulfur local atmosphere from coal burning that these issues (Bust and Seated) have lived through. In urban areas, air quality for the latter half of the 19th Century would make today's EPA sick to its' stomach. I find it quite reasonable to expect terminal-stage toning to be common with them.
That is a very attractive and original coin. If you assemble a set that all looks like that, it will be a very nice set.
All 3 are beauties , but I love your 1812 . Especially the LDS with the ends of the 3 stars and dates pointing towards the rim .
This is my main US series (I collect by Browning type). I would be suspicious of any small capped bust quarter XF and below if it didn't have dark toning. The examples posted in this thread are all excellent representations of typical toning for this series. You start to get a greater variety of toning once you get into AU+, but there are also definitely dark grey examples in higher grades. Here are some examples from my collection of different typical grey patinas for this series. 1836 B-1 (R2) ds 6/3 (weakly struck eagle's head) NGC AU50. 1832 B-2 (R2) ds 1/1 NGC XF45. 1834 B-1 O/F (R1) ds 2/5 NGC AU53. 1834 B-3 (R3) ds 2/1 NGC AU50 (strikethrough on cap)
The 36 with the shattered die is cool, but that 34 is gorgeous. Anyone interested in seeing some fantastic Bust Quarters should head over to the NGC forums/registry and look up a guy named Hard Times. He is building a magnificent set.
IMO Red Book and the cherrypicker's guide get this series wrong. The small capped bust quarters (1831-1838) really have 4 major types: Small Letters (1831 B-1 through B-4 only) Large Letters (1831 B-5 through B-7 and all varieties 1832-1838) O/F (1833 B-2 and 1834 B-1) While the reverse used does have an O/F overstrike, it's neither the most important feature of the type, nor the only overstruck variety in the series. This type has a different reverse with a two-line per stripe shield and a different-looking eagle from a new master hub created for this type change. It was only used for the two varieties above before the type was reverted. Cherrypicker's lists the 1834 FS-901 as being rare, but it's actually the most common 1834 variety. The 1833 FS-901, is scarce, however. Proof Dies (1834 B-2, 1834 B-5, and 1835 B-2) These three varieties were business strikes produced from the proof dies prepared for the 1834 presentation sets (like the King of Siam set). Only the first type (1834 B-2) used both proof dies. The other two only used the proof reverse, but the reverse die was produced from the third master hub and the eagle has a very different look from other reverses in the series. So a complete collection of major types by date includes the following: 1831 Small Letters 1831 Large Letters 1832 1833 1833 O/F 1834 1834 O/F 1834 Proof Dies 1835 1835 Proof Dies 1836 1837 1838 There are also a couple notable varieties, making a search for examples of the default types a little more interesting. The 1831 B-1 has the only reverse with berries on the olive branch in the series (a brief holdover from the large diameter bust quarters). The 1831 B-5 and B-7 also have an overstruck date 1/1831/1. Many varieties also have missing eagle tongues or periods after the denomination, and some of the late die states for 1833, 1835, and 1836 show quite spectacular deterioration. Have fun!
I've officially started the set. The Browning guide (1992 copywrite/1998 reprint) lists 35 varieties. There are 21 that are Rarity 1, 2 or 3. I figure they are probably within my range in XF. For the Rarity 4 & 5 I'll have to go with lower grades if at all. For 6 and up -- well I'll have to wait until I hit the lottery. I already had the 1838 in my type set. It's a B-1 (R-1) and is the ONLY Browning variety for that date. I have a 1834 (B-4; R-1) coming.
Have a look at this thread where I talk about some of the reference books available for this series. There are also some really informative early pamphlets and earlier printings of the Browning work, as well as a lot of material in the back issues of the John Reich Journal. https://www.cointalk.com/threads/a-bust-quarter-library.251116/#post-1975999 And the John Reich Collectors Society page: http://www.jrcs.org/
I've always found circulated bust coins fairly dark if original too. And I like them that way. I love circams too
That text is a bit behind and the rarities are much better understood now. There are now 36 varieties identified, or 38 if you include varieties that had a collar change. 1831 (7 varieties, 8 including collar changes) 1832 (2 varieties) 1833 (2 varieties) 1834 (5 varieties) 1835 (8 varieties, 9 including collar changes) 1836 (5 varieties) 1837 (6 varieties) 1838 (1 variety) If you only buy one book for this series, I highly suggest Early United States Quarters 1796-1838 by Steve M. Tompkins: http://www.amazon.com/Early-United-States-Quarters-1796-1838/dp/B00CLHGV9Y/
I went ahead and just ordered both the Tompkins and Peterson books. Can't hurt but may confuse the heck out of me
I just received the Peterson and Tompkins books. Along with the Browning book I should be able to identify any known early quarter. But we'll see.
