can you find this coin in an older catalog you may have?

Hello all

There was a series of medals (often mistakenly called coins) called "Chiefs In The Second War" which ran from 1957-1959. They were Venezuela coins minted in Germany, which, according to the Standard Catalog of Modern World Gold Coins, published in 2007 by Krause, pages 749-750 under Venezuela. The catalog lists 20 bolivares, 60 bolivares and 160 bolivares. Unfortunately, the information there is very incomplete, missing the 90 bolivares coin, many weights, and even missing an entire year (1958). There is also some confusion and misinformation regarding this series. In the 2018 Krause world gold coins catalog the news is even worse, this series is not even in there at all! They may have decided to kick it out for good in the new issue because technically it is a medal or medallion and not a coin. The coins do not have their denominations on them, just the gram weight and this is how you tell which coin you have (along with the diameter mm).

The series consisted of gold coins featuring of 18 leaders of countries involved in WWII... Pertain, de Gaulle, Montgomery, Hitler, Churchill, Mussolini, etc., ranging from 6 grams up to 50 grams. There are a few examples of it on ebay if you type in the search "Chiefs In The Second War. I happen to have the Hitler coin, but it is different from the other metals in that altho it is 30 mm in diameter, which would make it the 60 bolivares metal weighing in at 22.2 grams, while my 30mm medal mine weighs in at 11.7 grams. It has been tested as solid gold at 22.22 karots. Altho it is a genuine coin (medal), I have yet to see another like it or find a Krause number for it. Both NGC and PCGS have graded these medals in the past and can be found on their websites (mine is not there), however I think that they may discontinue grading them due to political reasons as it features enemies of the USA as well as the USA's friends. This is just a guess however.

OK, HERE IS MY POINT: I was wondering if any of you might have an older gold world coin catalog or similar catalog, say from 1960 and up. There is a great deal of confusion regarding this series and mistakes, along with many ommissions which grows worse as time moves on. The way I figure it, the catalogs back then that were published closer to the minting dates may have more complete information. Or perhaps you may know of a catalog which may have the information.

In any case, I thank you for your time or advice and it is ok to message or email me privately if this website allows that. I am new here and hate to beg information on my first post, but I am at my wit's end as I have been researching this coin for weeks with no results, so I thought I would reach out to the experienced members here.

Thanks again... Mike

 

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Hi, Mike!

While I probably won't be able to help you, it would help others if you could post good, clear photos of both sides of your medal. We have a lot of "World" collectors who might be able to help you.

Chris

 

Thanks for the reply cpm9ball, but I do not see the paperclip attachment symbol above, all the other ones that seem close want a url, but I have the pictures on a file on my computer... mike

 

ok, thanks...

 

I can't believe I did not see the upload a file button, I was zeroed in at the symbols. anyways, this is it and thanks for the info so far and any information or catalog info that might show up.... mike

 

Have you tried looking in the World Catalog of Unusual Coins? They are not in the Standard Catalog. They are all listed in Numismaster under Unusual Sources, Venezuela, Gold.

 

If you click on the second (eagle side) of this medal, you will see right below the eagle's right claw/tail feathers, you will see a "GB." and you will see a "15" (grams) between the "GB." and the "ORO". On my coin in this area, as you can see, there is just a big empty space there. Thanks sakata, yes, somebody has already looked on that catalog and it was not there, but perhaps an earlier version might reveal something. This 15 gram weight medal was not in my Krause catalog as well. To add to the confusion, my medal weighs in at 11.7 grams, which is listed nowheres that I can find. Thanks to all... mike

 

https://taxfreegold.co.uk/images/19...condworldwarmedallioncollectionbooklet400.jpg

https://taxfreegold.co.uk/venezuelagoldmedalsjefezenlasegundaguerra.html

 

thanks Hommer, I had already seen these webpages which not only show the confusion and differences between them and another coin dealer, but with themselves as far as the coins they once had for sale... saying the 20 gram coins were only 15 grams, etc. I even saw an auction house (not ebay) which corrected their own listing for the coins on gram weight on their own website. Unfortunately, they do little to clear it up as far as my coin is concerned. This series is a cesspool of misinformation and mistakes, which is why I am trying to find an earlier coin catalog which may provide the correct information I am looking for. In any case, thanks again... mike

 

It's highly unusual that the weight is left blank. Similar pieces, the Caciques the Venezuela set, don't usually have the weight on them, but also do not have a "Gr." field for it like your piece does.
I don't believe I've seen this on a gold piece of any kind from anywhere before.

 

4504, I can see the confusion regarding these medallions.

I don't know exactly what information may be in the original booklet that accompanied these sets. But, the Smithsonian Library has a copy of it. You may be able to borrow this copy from them if you have an OCLC member library in your area (hint: many state university libraries are members). Your local library may also be able to obtain the loan for you if they are willing to fill out and submit the proper loan form for you. A fee may apply.

You can find a nearby OCLC library using this link.
Here is a search link for the booklet at the Smithsonian.
If your local library is willing to obtain the loan for you, here is the page that has the form link and information they will need (the ALA interlibrary loan form).

 

This is an auction listing from two years ago. Lot 1663 is a complete set of small (6 g) pieces, the other lots are single 15 g medals. Just checked my coin catalog, and they are not there. However, since these medals were not issued by Venezuela but by a private bank, it makes sense to me that they are not listed in a coin catalog ...

Christian

 

One of the most recent issues of the STANDARD CATALOG OF WORLD COINS BY KRAUSE that listed the entire world in one volume was issued in 1985. I looked there and your gold series is not listed.

 

Thanks NP coin, I will try that... however, I am not sure that the mint made sets of ALL of the different gram weights, but It cannot hurt to try. And what does not help is that I've seen several sites, including an auction house, that says the 20 gram version actually weighs in 15 grams. Thanks to you also chrisild for your information. To further add to the confusion, these medals are listed in my Krause catalog as being 0.9000 purity (22k, or 90% gold). I had my medal tested by the most modern analyzer on the market, and it tested in at 92.58 to 92.80 (obverse-reverse range)(22.22 purity). regarding my 30mm in diameter medal which weighs in at 11.7 grams, why would the mint make another 30mm diameter medal (the 60 bolivares medal which reportedly weighing in at 22.2000 grams)...approx. just over half the weight of the 60 bolivares medal? And I think it is a weird coincidence that my metal has the same purity numbers as Krause says the 60 bolivares medal weighs.

and if all of that is not strange, consider this... there was a slight redesign and strike of the medals in 1958 and 1959. In 1957, they were MS strikes and listed the gram weight in THREE places, but not even these weighs agree... on the same coin. you will see on the 1957 example I am posting here now has the gram weight as "30" right next to the eagle's right wing, but in this same medal's 8 and 4 o'clock position along the rim it states "27" grams. In the 1958 and 59 version, they were struck as proofs and the gram weight is listed in only one place, or left blank as in my case. I'm telling ya, I am about to go bonkers...

 

Thanks Harley, so in 1985 they are not listed, in 2007 they were partially listed, and in 2018 not listed at all again. its off to the loony farm with me...

 

Total weight 30g. 27g FINE (pure) gold. 27/30=0.900 fine?