Calling all Jefferson Nickel experts...

I have a question about the Master Dies for proof Jefferson nickels from the 30's and 40's...

I've take a close look at some of the coins in my collection, more specifically a PCGS PR66 1939 Jefferson and a PCGS PR66 1942 Type 1 Jefferson. I'm noticing doubling on the reverse lettering on E PLURIBUS UNUM on both coins...and that raises a red flag to me. Either I'm really lucky or the Master Die was doubled. Unfortunately, none of my reference books mention this...

So, if anyone could either help me out with that knowledge, point me to the reference, or check the coins in their collection...I would sure appreciate it!

I'll try to work on some photos...but I'm guessing they're be an absolute bear to get in focus. I might just end up sending them for attribution if we don't figure something out here.

Thanks!

 

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monticello is what is normal doubled on jeffersons.

theres a couple differnt 1939 pds doubled dies not sure any are proof tho

 

Yes, I know about the business strike DD's...was looking for more info on proof strike DD. Thanks, though...

 

no thank you i found out some stuff i didnt know wile researching this question.
the last sentence may interest you

In 1939 the Mint modified the reverse design of the Jefferson nickel so that the 1939 Jefferson nickels come in two varieties. Variety 1 is usually described as the “Reverse of 1938” (Wexler JNRD-001) and is best recognized by steps on Monticello that are not well defined and sometimes described as “wavy”. Variety 2 is usually described as the “Reverse of 1940” (Wexler JNRD-002) and it has very sharp, well defined steps on Monticello. Both of these varieties are normal for the 1939 Jefferson nickels including the 1939 proof nickels, although the proof nickels with the reverse of 1940 are such scarcer than those with the reverse of 1938.




http://doubleddie.com/341701.html

 

Great enthusiasm!

 

there are double dies for the 42 proof and 39 proof look in the box that contains the info and look for grade pf to see the proofs

39
http://varietyvista.com/Variety Master Listings/jefferson doubled dies 1938-1941.htm

42

http://varietyvista.com/Variety Master Listings/jefferson doubled dies 1942-1943.htm





found this on the same site for all mint marks 39-64
but i think its only for the words trust and LIBerty


designation:

SD-1-O-V-CCW from K-5 (P, D, S, PR)

Description:

Medium spread on TRUST and light on LIB of LIBERTY

Grade:

Population:

Markers:






The 1939 master die was doubled; a class V doubled master die. It was then used to create a hub from which the last two digits (39) were removed. That modified hub was then used to make a master die in which the last two digits (40) were punched. It was used in subsequent years (1941-1944, 1946-1956, 1959-1964) by punching into the master die the appropriate last two digits.

 

You know what...I completely owe you a kudos...and here's why:

I looked at Variety Vista. I looked through the CONECA Master Listings. Didn't see anything for the Proof coin DDR. So I posted here. And you responded...not really with the information I was looking for, but with your last post I re-checked the listings...and I'll be da**** - there it was:



This is exactly my coin, an unattributed PCGS PR66. It has the die markers for Stage C, LDS.

You know what? I saw that and felt really, really bad - I was thinking "not really what I was looking for" but at least you got me to look again. And after I felt like a jerk...

I looked up the other coin. And here this was:



This, also, is my coin exactly, an unattributed PCGS OGH PR66. I had gotten so concerned that the master die was doubled I (and I'm being honest here) - I didn't even look at the other letters past E PLURIBUS UNUM. EVERY letter around the rim is doubled, FIVE CENTS is doubled, even some of MONTICELLO is doubled. Yikes. If it was a snake it would have bitten me.

So, by getting me to re-look at the Master Listings, you have helped me attribute these two DDR I've had for over a year and never thought to check for varieties. I have no idea what I was thinking about the FIRST time I looked at them...because I did...and I totally missed that info. Totally. Wow.

I would like to send you a reward, partially as a thank you and partially because I feel like I need to. PM me with a place I can send you something, if that's okay.

Again, thank you. I couldn't be happier...

 

Oh, I remember: I was watching the St. Louis Cardinals finish off the Pirates...

And here is a thread I just found by typing the 1939 DDR into Google:

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=784936

(this is what my coin looks like - doubling wise)

 

And I have a 1950 PCGS PR67 with light doubling on AMERICA...what the heck was I doing during the game? lol...

 

You must have missed this thread from last year.

Jefferson Nickels Reverse of 38 vs Reverse of 40

 

I remember that article and all its wonderfulness. Seriously.

 

I actually enjoyed writing that one and the photos were a challenge. I only regret that I could not help in this thread because I really don't know anything about proof Jefferson Nickels. I never really got into the proofs because you really need to be able to examine them in hand prior to purchase and have never really had the opportunity to attend the major coin shows.

 

In the end it all worked out - I still can't figure out how I completely missed the entries for these coins...totally distracted by sports I guess.

Jeffersons are a great series to collect. The fact that these coins are varieties only adds to my enjoyment of them. I have no idea if these varieties even add anything to the value of them...

Of course, as always, doing more research and double checking myself, I found this earlier CoinTalk post:

http://www.cointalk.com/threads/very-rare-war-nickel-variety-the-1942-pr-wddr-003.225469/

I took a look at my coin...and it's not the DDR-001. That die gouge on the obverse? Plain as day. Yeesh! These coins are definitely going to Mr. Wexler or Mr. Wiles for attribution...as I am having a "roundabout" day of looking through the glass...

Annnnnnnd just found it in my copy of "The Best of The Jefferson Nickel Doubled Die Varieties," page 45. Yep...listed as "Very Rare" and "Significant" with a price of PR65 - $250...and mine is a PCGS OGH PR66. So it's most likely worth significantly more than I thought...I got this as my bonus for helping my auctioneer friend at his fireworks tent last year. I was just happy and excited to own an early proof Jefferson!

The Cards won their series...the Blues beat the Blackhawks...It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia was funny again, American Horror Story started up again (haven't seen it yet)...and I learned about a new variety that I ALREADY OWNED AND DIDN'T KNOW IT. What a great Wednesday night!

 

Thats all I needed to make it great!



A few years ago before a Phillies-Cardinals game!

 

I wonder if the WDDR-003 matches up with any CONECA Listings? Thought it was the DDR-001 but I don't see the same markers Wexler lists...

Here are some photos of the 1942:




And a closeup of the die gouge on the obverse below the hair, on the back of the collar. I drew a black circle around it, although you might have caught it without it:



Looks like I'm going to need to send it in for re-encapsulation anyway as there is some PVC starting to form on the reverse. I'm a bit worried about it staying at PR66 at least - what would the forum's recommendation be? At the least it's going to Wexler/Wiles for attribution...

 

Looks like you got your answer. The NGC 66 one I have doesn't exhibit signs of strong doubling.
And I'm posting the photos because I have them uploaded and they must serve a purpose.





Though I do like that die break between I and B in the EPU.

 

Now that is a nice marker to look for. I'm looking to downgrade my nickel, so I'll be on the prowl looking for that marker as well. Thanks for the image!

 

very nice proofs. I to missed the variety's for the 39 the first time around.
i went down the list but couldnt find anything for proof. under 1939s but thats because i forgot older proofs dont have mint marks. I remembered this on the 1942 page and just decided to read a few and thats when i realized some of the grades said pr.
if you get yours attributed you might be able to get yours mentioned on that site.
be sure to keep us informed on how that goes

 

Quoted from a post above....What is the source of this information?? I'm curious as Most sources indicate that the "punching in" of digits stopped in 1909 with a ten dollar gold piece.

"The 1939 master die was doubled; a class V doubled master die. It was then used to create a hub from which the last two digits (39) were removed. That modified hub was then used to make a master die in which the last two digits (40) were punched. It was used in subsequent years (1941-1944, 1946-1956, 1959-1964) by punching into the master die the appropriate last two digits."

 

It comes from the link i posted about the 39. Not sure the source