Byzantine double strike

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Valentinian, Sep 11, 2017.

  1. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    A "double strike" is not the same as an "overstrike". Overstrike refers to a new type struck on a flan that was a coin of an older type. We had a thread on those:
    https://www.cointalk.com/threads/byzantine-overstrikes.302645/

    Doublestrike refers to a coin struck with the same dies twice, with different enough position so you can see both strikes. A flip double strike is one in which the two strikes have the obverse struck on the reverse and vice versa. The coin must have come off the dies, been judged to need a second try, and accidentally put back with the reverse to be struck by the obverse die.

    This coin is even more complex. It is a triple flip strike. I think I can explain it as a single type (Justin, DO 9. Sear 63) where the large "M" has a star to the left and a cross to the right with obverse legend DN IVSTI - NVS PP AVG.
    The coin is large: 31-29 mm and 15.17 grams. Interpretation of the strikes is informed by the usual 6:00 die axis of Byzantine copper.


    ByzTripleStrike800.jpg
    This is one orientation. See the "NVS PP AVG" from 1:30 to 4:30? Then the bust should be upright and you can see some of it--head, clothing on the bust, but all weak. Using the 6:00 die axis, the other side is right-side up, so it had a large "M" with a cross to the right and "..ON" (of "CON") in exergue, officina A between the legs of the M.

    The "STI" at 7:00 on the reverse is best understood with the coin rotated and sides flipped.

    Here is a second orientation:
    ByzTripleStrike2s800.jpg
    See the "STI" at 10:00- 11:00? And, again the "ST" part is visible on the obvious very off-center strike with more of the obverse legend: [DN]IVST . Now, knowing that the "STI" was at 10:30, I can see the top of the head (just above the left leg of the "M") which is why in the first orientation the symbol on the left side of the reverse M is obscure. But in this orientation you can see it on the reverse: a clear six-pointed star and mintmark "CON". You can see bits of the cross to the right and the cross above the M.

    So, this coin was struck three times and they never got it right. Once as in the first picture. Once as in the second picture, well-centered. And once as in the second picture, left side, very off-centered. (With the coin in hand I can't identify anything remaining from the other side of that off-center strike). Because of its sharp edge which obliterates the top of the M, I interpret the very off-center strike as the last of the three. As the aphorism has it, "If at first you don't succeed, try two more times and then give up" (aphorism slightly modified from its original form.)

    Tell me that Byzantine copper coins are not beautiful!

    Can you show us any doublestrikes?
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
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  3. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    LOL, great Triple @Valentinian !

    I have a flipover doublestrike:
    (I really like TRIGAS!)

    upload_2017-9-11_7-35-43.png
    upload_2017-9-11_7-36-23.png
    RR Clodius Pulcher T Mallius AR Den 111-110 BCE ERROR Flipover Double-Strike Roma Triga Cr 299/1b Sear 176


    Straight doublestrike:
    RR M Furius ERROR DOUBLE-STRIKE AR Den119 BC Janus Trophy Carnyx S 156 Cr 281-1.jpg
    upload_2017-9-11_7-38-52.png
    RR Clodius Pulcher T Mallius AR Den 111-110 BCE ERROR Flipover Double-Strike Roma Triga Cr 299-1b Sear 176
     
  4. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    I have shown this Magnentius AE2 too many times but I do like the coin very much. It is a doublestrike in that there was only one die set used in its production. The first strike was a brockage showing two reverses, one normal and one incuse. The second strike was normal with the obverse falling on the original normal reverse and the second reverse falling on the original incuse/brockage. That means the coin is a flipover doublestruck brockage. It has one obverse and three reverse strikes but one of those reverses is an incuse.
    rx7115bb1097c.jpg

    Also shown before and a bit odd is a very ordinary AE3 doublestrike of Constantine I from Rome - ordinary except that the reverse die shows considerable damage from a previous die clash most notably leaving a shadow of the portrait on the reverse. The offsets of the two strikes on both sides match in direction and degree. This doubling of the incuse shows that it was part of the die and not a brockage.
    rv4770bb2051.jpg
     
    randygeki, chrsmat71, Ajax and 11 others like this.
  5. 7Calbrey

    7Calbrey Well-Known Member

    A couple of relevant coins. The first is a double strike of Gratian's face on the obverse. The second is an over struck coin with reverse showing river god down, and another figure up. There's also lettering on the reverse (Greek), along with a clear bust on obverse that shouldn't be a puzzle to experts. DoubleHead  Gratian.JPG DoubleH R.JPG CamAlex R     overstruck.JPG CamAlex O    overstruck.JPG
     
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  6. Multatuli

    Multatuli Homo numismaticus

    Here goes one Dematius' double strike.
    Sorry about the poor quality of the pics...
    IMG_4628.JPG IMG_4629.JPG
     
  7. rrdenarius

    rrdenarius non omnibus dormio

    The coins below were a CNG lot(s?) about a year ago that included LRB and Jewish coins. In that auction I was targeting a coin that went waaaaaaaay above my budget and I wanted to buy something that day. I think this was a pretty good consolation group.
    Jewish Coin and Roman Imperial error coins CNG 376 lot 782 6.15.16.jpg
    The lot, above, and a widow's mite below. I can't assign an obverse and reverse to the mite! You can see the star and anchor on one side. The other side has a nice star, but the rest is less recognizable.

    mite flip over dbl strike.JPG fods mite s2 3.JPG
     
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  8. rrdenarius

    rrdenarius non omnibus dormio

    Great coin! I'd do a back-flip for the coin..... well maybe in my mind.
     
  9. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    "Genius" is a word with a modern meaning which is not the ancient Roman meaning, which is more like "spirit". Many Roman coins depict the "GENIVS" of the army or the people. Where does your spirit reside? Take a look:

    ClaudiusIIGENIVSEXERCI.jpg

    Claudius II, 268-270. GENIVS EXERCI
    [IMP C CLA]VDIVS AVG

    Your "GENIVS" resides in your mind--in your head. This flipover double-strike illustrates that.
     
  10. Johndakerftw

    Johndakerftw Mr. Rogers is My Hero

    Here is a Widow's Mite with a flip-over double-strike that I got from you Warren. Still one of my absolute faves!:D

    image1 (3).JPG image2 (3).JPG

    Erin
     
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