bulk grading process and honesty in coin grading PCGS vs. NGC

I sent a hundred coins to PCGS bulk grading. They were sent in slabs from another grader. One came back "dirty" in new pcgs holder. A couple did come back not gradable for error code that may have been a scratch or dent in rim. These were sent back NOT REMOVED from the original holder. I didn't have that from the previous grade on the coin. Some coins looked absolutely better then higher graded coins I have seen. I now know that somewhere along the bulk grading process, the original grade and slab was looked at. What are peoples thoughts on this? When sending several hundred coins for bulk grading you can't tell the crossover grade. You just have to send the coins and hope for the best. Do people here think that previous grades in slabs get penalized or do you think pcgs or ngc really assess the coin as the coin. Also, has anyone ever experienced the feeling the a coin sent was not the one sent back? There is a lot of discussion on the net and some people with bad experiences from pcgs. But it appears they are the strictest and when buying coins the most trusted for grading accuracy, although there is the NGC following that would say the same. People experiences please.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

not sure you are going to get any straight answer for fear jeopardizing their next submission? Just guessing.. I am learning how inconsistent their grading is by building an extensive study set. So I am going to surmise that your questions are a result of seeing/suspecting the same inconsistencies in your submisssion.

 

I would need to see the coins in-hand (preferably raw) before passing judgment.

If you really believe in the coins, send them in raw. If you don't, send them in slabs. Your odds are better raw.

Depending on the coin, chances are the coin is worth more in PCGS plastic.

I have had good experiences with PCGS. I have not submitted to NGC.

 

How would posting our opinion about this topic jeopardize our next submission?

To answer the OP's question, no, I don't think the previously graded coins get penalized. Also, I've submitted a few coins, and have never felt that I received back different coins. As for PCGS or NGC, and who's stricter (and accurate) it depends on the series.

 

for the record and according to the way they grade it won't I am just saying...hear no evil, speak no evil...


I have been getting a lot of advice on bulk submissions, not sure when I will be doing my PCGS submission - I am sitting on the fence on whether I will publicize it like I did my first NGC submission. I will be submitting the whole gamut. Raw - crossovers - regrades- reholder - all the same M/M I may also do it through a dealer. just not sure yet. I am still learning and building some confidence with a random sampling.

 

are people afraid pcgs read this post? NGC appeared more eager to get my business. PCGS however appears to be #1 although there are ngc enthusiasts that would argue that. In my opinion the coin should be graded based on the coin, not what someone else previously thought. But we have all heard stories that people have resubmitted coins multiple times and finally received a bump up. It is an interesting process and based on human judgement. It could probably be computer based, but that would leave graders without a job.

 

not afraid of PCGS or NGC here.

But it does seem that when you send a coin in for crossover that a closer look will be taken at the coin as well as the grade on the current holder's label. There is a good reason for this however. If you sent them in as crossovers, I assume that you requested a minimum grade on the coins, either to cross into a PCGS holder at the same grade as the current holder, or maybe a grade lower? Even if you asked PCGS to cross the coins into a PCGS holder at "any grade" you are still asking them to cross the coins at a "grade."

So, the first thing PCGS must do is look at the coin in the current holder to determine if the coin is "gradable" according to their standards. To do so, they must view/grade the coin while in the other company's holder. That isn't always to do as some holders hide the edges of the coins and sometimes the plastic of the holders can be quite scratched up. Accordingly, if PCGS can't tell for sure that coin will cross at the requested grade or can't tell that the coin is gradable in the first place, they will not crack it out and it'll get sent back. That doesn't necessarily mean you had a bad coin or that the coin really wouldn't grade high enough, it may just mean that PCGS couldn't tell for sure while the coin was in the old holder and decided not to risk cracking it out to be sure.

For example, if you send them a toned coin in an NGC holder that has the plastic all scratched up, PCGS may not be able to get a real good look at the surfaces to determine whether or not the coin has been cleaned. So PCGS will likely be cautious and err on the side of not crossing it. If they took the risk and cracked it out to see the coin raw, they may find a great coin and put it in one of their holders, but if they cracked it and did see some cleaning or other problem, they can't just put it back in the old NGC holder.

Of course, once PCGS determines the coin in the old holder is gradable under their standard, and assuming you asked it to cross at any grade, I believe the coin will then be cracked out and given to the graders in a clear plastic coin flip w/o any info regarding the previous grade. So your coin does get a fair grading by the graders... But it has to pass that first step of being gradable in order to get cracked out.

So yeah, on a crossover PCGS graders will look at the grade on the older holder, but they pretty much have to do so to determine if the coin is gradable in the first place. If you know for sure your coins are ok, then sending them in raw would give PCGS a better look at the coins, but all the risk of cracking would be yours.

 

Good point and I agree with it for the most part. Pretty much the only time I really see PCGS coins going for consistent premiums over NGC coins is when you're at the very high end of the grading scale where the coin would be at or near the top of the popluation report. The competition in the PCGS Set Registries and the exclusion of NGC coins from that game really does drive some prices to insane levels. Other than that, I usually see small cents (IHCs and Lincolns) in higher grades get a little more in PCGS plastic vs. NGC, but usually not enough price difference to where I'd make a habit of playing the crossover game, except for the very top grades.

But yeah, if you have a great coin, a good dealer will pay you a fair price for it, regardless of the holder and the label on that holder.

 

Based on what Illini said, I think that a surmation would be that yes, the coin is penalized simply by having to go through an additional step of grading. It's not like they add points to a coin and build up to 70 - everything noted is a negative.

It's not like they start off on a positive note, they can't see the coin encased in it's plastic tomb!.

its not red enough, it doesn't have enough luster, it's a weak strike, it has noticeable marks in the field, it has spots, it has too many bag marks. it's got a deep ding on the rim- OOPS! Genuine code 98! next coin....

 

I think a 98 genuine code would upset anybody! But they have to take the coin out to give it a final grade. They are also not grading cameo unless both sides qualify. Years ago you could get a cameo grade if the front side only was a cameo but now both sides must qualify. I will see what my next test run brings back soon and report results.

 

I have sent a NGC coin to pcgs and it came back in the NGC holder. I cracked it out and sent it in raw and it was graded by pcgs. I don't bother with crossover submissions, if I like the coin enough to buy it I will always crack it out of the original holder and sent it to pcgs.