Base and tasteless question about prices on ancients...

I have yet to fully embrace ancients collecting but I lurk, and I pick up the occasional piece, and have been doing so for a few years. Mostly just 'buy something that appeals' has been my motto.

Well, much to my surprise a coin that I won at a Heritage auction in 2014, has now garnered TWO offers...I can't remember the first offer, but it was in the same ballpark as the one I'm facing now. The offer, after fees, would be a bit more than double what I paid, including fees, just 6 years ago.

I mean, I really like the coin (which is why I bought it). I like the mythological beasts. And, did not have any intention of selling it. That said, my collecting has taken a back seat to other concerns of late and my plan is to downsize...but ancients were not part of that plan.

Sooo....I guess my question is, is there something special about this coin that was unrecognized when I bought it (ie I got it for a steal), or have prices really gone up that much? I'd hate to sell it and then be priced out if/when I get more organized into the ancient side of things and want a griffin like this back.

I mean, I like it a lot, but does it deserve a special spot in a more 'serious' collection? And what if that more serious collection is mine someday. Sellers remorse is real.



And if anyone wants to be nosy (I sure would be) this is the auction link: https://coins.ha.com/itm/ancients/g...gm-/a/3032-30046.s?type=moto-offer-seller-tem

 

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Well, I already replied to this over on the PCGS boards, but you will get more replies here then there.

 

Is that you over there . Cool! Other than NGC I have the same name, but my avatar crosses over multiple sites. I didn't post this over at NGC though.

It does feel a little tasteless to ask this question though. But who knows, maybe the person who made the offer is here and can give me a good story on why I should sell. I like stories. But, I like griffins too. The price is not make or break territory for me either way, but my curiosity is piqued. Heritage should allow messages when offers are made.

I sold one coin via the offer system once and I was pretty sure I 'knew' who it was...waited and sure enough the coin showed up in an NGC registry. Only not the one I was expecting, so I guessed it was one of two people active in that registry only I mentally picked the wrong one. That was a 'double' but I understood the pricing going on there. And felt good about letting it go because I was pretty sure by then Iceland was not going to be a serious interest after all.

 

Research it. Look at vcoins, ma-shops, and acsearch for prices.

 

I check VC and didn't find any of this type. And Ma-Shops tends to be pretty high no matter the coin, IMO.

 

I don't know anything about values, but that is one seriously cool coin.

 

Modern collectors who want a coin know that they will be able to find several similar coins and that there is a pretty well established price schedule so only the best coins can get irrational offers. Ancients don't always work that way. It might be a few years before another coin of this type and condition can be found and there are collectors quite willing and able to pay now whatever is necessary for the coin they are seeking. We each will define what coins we want. Many people would like this coin and a few want it bad enough to pay well over what might be considered wise if you are concerned about resale value. Your decision is whether you want the coin for your collection or you would be happier with the $800. I am not a specialist in coins like this so I would not pay the price. If you had the coin I want, that would be a completely different matter.

 

Amazing coin... how does this work? I have never purchased a coin from these large auction houses. Are coins generally just kept online in case someone wants to make the owner an offer.. so the firm can grab their fee again? Not saying this is a bad thing at all - just interesting.

 

It would appear that not many of this type have been available by auction for the last several years. The few that have been are in lesser condition in comparison to yours, which appears to be a pretty nice example.

Ancient coin pricing(supply&demand) is a strange one to pin down. In the short time that I've been collecting ancients, demand(higher hammer prices at auction) have jumped considerably.

 

I didn't see a similar one at vcoins or on ma-shops. Sadly I don't have a premium account for acsearch. Tempting, but for a non-pro with idle curiosity I never purchased that.

Edited, to add, mostly the price was a surprise as it was so high, twice now. Probably is just a fluke. Maybe I should let it go then. I am clearly not appreciating it to it's fullest. And perhaps the ancients market has gotten 'hotter' than I realized. In contrast my Japanese coins are quite flat in value...just as I'm starting to think about selling my dupes.

 

Heritage is odd that way. If you find something in their archives you like you can 'make offer to owner'. I've accepted a couple, basically they keep 10% and you ship it to them. They collect payment and send it on. Not sure if they charge on the other side too.

The times I accepted were because I had a decent grasp of what I was selling, and if I'd tried the eBay route or whatever a lot more would have gone to fees. And I may not have found the buyer ever. Easy money for them.

 

I suspect that coin is worth double what you paid for it. It is rare and well centered and well struck.

Yours is nicer than the one in the famous Jameson collection that hammered for $700.

The grade is VF★. In NGC Ancients, the ★ means "impressive", not "Almost VF+". A lot of folks coming from modern coin collecting skip VF coins, even if the are graded ★ 5/5 4/5. VF coins are overlooked in slabs in auctions that have a lot of slabbed AU and MS material.

If you like the coin I recommend Adrienne Mayer's book The First Fossil Hunters in which she gives evidence that the ancient Greek griffin's appearance was inspired by fossil dinosaurs.

I don't know about the bull or calf's head on the reverse but he looks dressed up for some kind of ritual and those types are often popular.

 

It's a nice coin but there doesn't seem to be much price history on these. Based on what I was able to find, the offer seems pretty fair. Basically just leaves it up to what you would be happier with, the coin or about $700 or so.

 

I noticed the Jameson coin too, but dont forget a provenance that old (1928) can almost double the price of a coin and in some instances even more. I suspect that's why the price of the Jameson coin was so high, otherwise I bet it would have hammered closer to 200-400. I think the offer is very fair but boils down to matter of preference at this point.

 

Always the tough part...

That looks like a great read, thank you.

And thank you for your perspectives. Lots to think about for this one.

 

I don't do ancients coins yet, but that coin is amazing to me.

 

The coin is not from the same dies as the Jameson example. The ordering of letters of the magistrate's name is different. I suspect that whoever is interested to buy it is biased by the price hammered by the example below and so believes its a bargain. It's quite dangerous to use old hammer prices as a guide if you don't know the context.
https://www.biddr.com/auctions/nac/browse?a=712&l=751040

As to why/if you got a deal from HA, you probably don't know the context. In the early 2010s HA was still ridiculed in discussions for the reason they were selling several fakes, so people avoided them. Furthermore, most probably still in 2014 they had the only domestic shipping policy. Meaning if you were from elsewhere, you had to arrange your own insurance for the coin packet they would post, or take the risk of getting it posted uninsured. So for example I collect fractions from abdera and I didn't even notice your coin as I totally ignored their auctions. Then I don't know how the coin looks in reallity. Is it silver white like in the photo of HA or does it have light toning like in your photo? It looks very unattractive in the photo of HA.

 

This book sounds like it's right up my alley. Thank you so much for posting this recommendation!

 

I am new at coin collecting and have a tiny collection, but as far as I am concerned it is an easy question to answer. As you said, you had trouble finding examples of that coin on vcoins and ma-shops. The indication is that it is not a common coin, and it doesn't appear to be in large numbers in the market. Also, when it makes an appearance, it is usually in a condition worse than yours. And yours has everything going for it... Great flan, appealing surface, centered strike on both sides, good enough detail again on both sides, and what is for me the most important factor: fantastic and artistic design that epitomises why Greek ancients are so great and desirable. Unless you really need the money, keep it would be my advice... You will probably miss it when it is gone!

 

@pprp That is very interesting regarding Heritage’s history. You are 100% correct I did not know that.

First I really was barely thinking about ancients. I almost certainly found this by plugging ‘griffin’ into the search engine looking for coins or medals. I was not looking for an ancient.

Plus, I was recently retired from the Navy, and 2009-2013 were overseas. I particularly remember the latter two years as being slow in my purchases. Partly as I was VERY busy (including a fairly brief shipboard assignment) and buying was difficult logistically.

I was living in Spain and a time I should have been learning more, well it never fired for me. Unlike Japan which during first tour is where my adult collecting was ignited.

In any case I exclusively bought online (other than at the Tokyo coin show and rare shops I made it to), and coins were almost all slabbed. Heritage was an option as the shipped to APO/FPO. The issue with fakes in an area I did not collect was not on my radar.

So, I had no compunction regarding buying a slabbed ancient from them. Very cool! An accidental confluence of events to be sure.

As for the other auction, that is also interesting! This coin is not quite that nice to be sure. My earlier photos (that is a 2017 photo and all I did to upload it here was resize a bit) do run dark. I’ll have to reshoot those now. It is not as white as Heritage, but the shot I posted is not quite right either. It’s not the first coin from earlier HA photos that looks better (or worse) in hand from a few years ago.

@Only a Poor Old Man you have summed it up perfectly. Just about any other griffin coins I notice and consider buying or bidding on do exceed my dilettante collecting budget. Not as nice or far too pricey are the general finds. The price level offers on this one are not a make/break for my budget (but as I recently quit/retired from my post military career that could change between now and collecting social security...), it makes much more sense to keep it.

My logical side was thinking it’s not a core piece, take a profit. My emotional side loves it and wants to keep it. My practical side was wavering between the two.

Well, ‘when in doubt, don’t do anything stupid that you might regret’ is a good motto. Unlike the old days at work where ‘when in doubt, cut it out’ was real.

A wine infused Cointalk post does have a way of clarifying things by the next morning! Always helpful to bounce things off other collectors. And I will add ‘take new photos’ to my list of projects this week. My camera equipment has been little utilized of late.