bad coin grading services

Hi,
I'm a newbie and am wondering what are the good coin-grading services and, more important, if there are any I should stay away from. Thanks for any advice on this.
Greg

 

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PCGS and NGC are the best 2 in my opinion. PCGS has the best resale value of any of them. The ones to stay away from, PCI, AGC, NTC,and SGS.

 

reply

I agree with the previous posts basically. Here is a 3rd parties opinion on all of the grading services. http://www.camacs.com/coin_grading_services.html#PCGS
Please note that Accugrade's info is missing because they are suing everyone for badmouthing them. But keep in mind, they are being badmouthed for a reason, because they do not adhere to the general MS coin grading standards, though on their slabs, they make it appear as they do. Avoid them at all costs. So check out that site and decide for yourself. I am partial to ICG because of their grading consitency and I believe they have the best slabs available, as far as preservation goes.

 

There are proponents for every grading service. Collectors usually buy slabbed coins because they cannot grade coins consistently themselves. Yes preservation is a factor, but grades equal value. When we purchase coins sight seen, the slab it is in means nothing. Many coins can cross over or even upgrade. The standards that each company uses have changed over time. They will continue to change. If you understand that no company will ever be 100 percent right all of the time, you can make a better decision.
You can look into their guarantees to make better decisions also. A few will guarantee their grades for the life that the coin remains in their holder.
So if buying sight unseen, this has to be a major factor.
The big TWO are not flawless either. They just market themselves better. As collectors flock to one grading service or another, others follow like Lemmings.
Every knowledgeable collector hears buy the coin, not the holder.
This valuable advice will probably never change.

 

Agree somewhat........but when I am purchasing coins, 'sight unseen', over the internet.....I would definately accept the grade handed down from ICG, PCGS, or NGC (not terribly fond of Anacs), long before I would accept that opinion from a so-called knowledgable dealer. Afterall, grades are offered by opinion of the grader and that individual may not follow the standards that say PCGS or ICG follows (hence how accugrade got into trouble). They both list their grades and the standards/characteristics needed to achieve that grade, so you have an idea of what you are getting. Plus I deal with their coins on a regular basis so I am familiar with what type of coin per grade I am receiving. Now a dealer's opinion will vary widely from dealer to dealer and quite often you would lose money purchasing these coins over the net. Case in point, look at the dealer graded coins at the auction sites ebay and yahoo. They sell for no where near the amount of the top 3 grading services coins. Others such as Teletrade will not even auction a coin unless it is graded by one of their approved graders. In person, an experience person can somewhat judge for themselves with a microscope in hand.......but not from scans on the internet. And sure some people offer a money back guarentee.......but do you trust that? I don't. If a third party escrow service was used....maybe.....but even then, only at a substantially discounted price.

 

I have established a good dealer/collector relationship with a few dealers over the years. I have grown to trust their opinions and often buy coins sight-unseen from them. Of course on the rare occation that I'm not happy with a particular coin, they will always stand behind their merchandise and make sure I'm happy.
Developing good working relationships with coin dealers takes time, but in my opinion, it is time well spent.

 

Well sir, I won't argue your opinion.

Grading will always be subjective.
PCGS, NGC, and every other service has altered their standards frequently.

The process is usually viewed by three graders and their collective opinion is the final grade.
Now if you resubmit your coin several times, the odds of the same coin being graded differently by the same service is pretty good.
We routinely resubmit coins. This is standard practice in the hobby.
If you really want good grades, go to a show and submit them for same day service.
We have had coins body bagged by PCGS that were cracked out of their holders. The same is said for coins that were body bagged once, and then certified by the same service.
On any given day of the week, all grading services will have an error in judgement. They are just people trying to do a good job.

Yes different grading services will be better and worse. This is just a fact. It still boils down to knowledge.

If you rely on the holder being correct, then your odds of being burnt increase. Every person that purchases a coin, should do their homework first. If you pass on a coin in a so called bad holder, then you are buying the holder and not the coin.

When we buy sight-unseen it is only from dealers that we have dealt with over time. It does not take long to develop good working relationships.

 

Here is another article on coin grading services:

http://rg.ancients.info/guide/slabs.html

--
Stujoe

 

SGS grading...who are these guys??

I agree to stay away from SGS grading. Here's why...first, there is no phone number listed for this "grading" service. Second, there is no business listed anywhere in the local business directory for that area. Third, their website is nothing more than a single page of pretty much nothing. Fourth and probably my biggest reason never to buy their graded coins, they seem to work with an ebay seller, "Aboncom" that sells primarily SGS graded coins! This seller is listed in the SAME area as SGS coins! Hmmmmmm.

Also, 99% of their coins have a MS70 or PR70 grading. I was tempted to bid and buy two of these graded coins and I was disappointed when I received them. The slab was made of cheap fishing-tackle plastic and the grade was not a PR70. Their "seal" was nothing more than a gold foil tape on the top and bottom of the slab. Their certificate was something that came out of a word.doc. I took this to my local dealer and he laughed at me. Not convinced, I sent them to PCGS (for a crossover) and they wouldn't grade them since I put PR68DCAM as the minimum grade. Both didn't make a PR68DCAM grade and they were both "certified" as PR70DCAM! NOT!!

Here's what I think is goinig on...Aboncom (ebay seller) set up their own grading service so that novice's like myself would gladly bid on a 70 grade. Why not? All looks good and this will surely drive up the bids under the ultimate "70 grade" being wiggled in front of your face. I contacted them and I was quickly "blocked" from doing any business with them. It makes sense...both Aboncom and SGS reside in the same state and I bet they are very close to one another...if not one in the same! Aboncom and SGS slabs are ONE in the SAME!!

Going forward, I only buy (sight unseen) PCGS, NGC and ICG slabbed coins. A lesson I learned, so don't fall for this 70 grade when it is NOT!

 

Im kinda new to the coin thing.
I started like buying some cheaper stuff and am feeling like the old German States stuff with a little bit of colonial US, and just about anything G.B.,Ireland and France from the 1500s to the early 1700s.

Well, i went to a big coin company in columbus ohio and bought few nice coins.....
well, Im probly not as forgiving as some, but when i started looking at the coins i noticed that even withm my untrianed eye that they had been very generous in their grading.

What i would call a good coin at the very best, they were calling fine or better.
They didnt exactly over charge me or anything and im not raelly into buying perfect coins.......I really only am interested in the historical value..........but I just think it odd that a rookie could see the imperfections in these coins and be a little more critical of their condition than this company whos been in business for 40 years.

It makes me kinda see the point in the post above.

I think these folks overgrade in hopes that rookes will think theyre getting something worth buying........escpecially since when i bought these coins they WANTED me to go back home and order them online instead with NO photos......only thier listed grades....

seems theres lots of deception going on ........

 

Sgs Hahaha

[Well i just read this post and have my own thoughts on SGS, I just made a purchase on ebay from this aboncom which is found at abon.com and i am thouroughly disgusted. I read this post and then did some snooping around and although I am fairly experienced coin collector I am not a professional grader but I do believe that the coins I bought will not pull an MS 70 with NGC or PCGS, and then I got to wondering and it is obvious that this guy owns SGS and overgrades to take advantage of ebayers. If you say anything that disrupts his course of business he will not respond to you. In the last year this guy has gotten a total of 37000 + feedback selling coins on ebay all of which are the SGS and almost all of which are MS70's. This is outrageous. This guy only grades uncirculated and proof coins from the 50's to present and I am convinced that he is under the impression that if he takes it out of a proof holder himself that it has got to be a PR70CAM and if he finds an uncirculated coin well then it must be a MS70 if he takes it out of the mint sets. THis is just craziness that the coin world does not need and I think i will stick to PCGS, NGC, or ANACS myself preferably the first two if I can afford it.

 

I agree with that. I would buy an unslabbed coin from a dealer whom I knew and had done past business with, who had a return policy of course. Or even a dealer whom I was referred to by a fellow collector, say from a coin forum such as this. I was referring to a "dealer" off of eBay, that I didn't know.





QUOTE=National dealer]Well sir, I won't argue your opinion.

Grading will always be subjective.
PCGS, NGC, and every other service has altered their standards frequently.

The process is usually viewed by three graders and their collective opinion is the final grade.
Now if you resubmit your coin several times, the odds of the same coin being graded differently by the same service is pretty good.
We routinely resubmit coins. This is standard practice in the hobby.
If you really want good grades, go to a show and submit them for same day service.
We have had coins body bagged by PCGS that were cracked out of their holders. The same is said for coins that were body bagged once, and then certified by the same service.
On any given day of the week, all grading services will have an error in judgement. They are just people trying to do a good job.

Yes different grading services will be better and worse. This is just a fact. It still boils down to knowledge.

If you rely on the holder being correct, then your odds of being burnt increase. Every person that purchases a coin, should do their homework first. If you pass on a coin in a so called bad holder, then you are buying the holder and not the coin.

When we buy sight-unseen it is only from dealers that we have dealt with over time. It does not take long to develop good working relationships.[/QUOTE]

 

Not to be argumentative in the least, plaese dont take it that way..............but in the experience I had as stated in my previous post I bought 10 coins.............9 of them were horribly over-graded....

Like i said, im not a coin collector, i am a Book and Comic collector, so i do understand the even the slightest of imperfections afects the grade of an item.

If 1 or 2 coins out of 10 slipped, and recieved a slightly higher grade than it deserved, I could see that...........but 9 out of 10 being highly overgraded 1 or even 2 levels higher ..........I think thats not error in judgement........i think thats purposeful deception.


They way these folks have described this person on Ebay wouldnt surprise me in the least.

 

Well the majority of people selling on Ebay are not dealers. They are there selling whatever they can. There are many third grading services out there. Not all are good. There are a handful that consistently overgrade coins. Unfortunately, most collectors realize this after the fact. They rush into buying coins, when they should be buying books. If you take a stroll through the coins available on these auction sites, you will see that the majority of these coins are from lower grading services. The sellers are preying on the people who think that they can get good deals. They see some grading services' MS-65 coins selling for way below retail and think they are going to get rich quick. Then after purchasing these coins, they find that the four major services won't even grade the coin because it was cleaned or whizzed, or altered in some way, and now they own a coin that they will basically have to give away at a substantial loss.
Like any collectible market, knowledge is what separates most people.

That is one reason that I joined this forum in particular. The people here are truly attempting to pass along useful information. Not for fame or fortune, but for the simple pleasure of helping others learn about this wonderful hobby.

 

2004 MS70 nickels are MS70 graded by SGS and Aboncom!

There you have it...the first MS70 2004 nickels are available from SGS coin grading through the ebay seller, Aboncom.

They did it again, this Ohio based "company" was able to secure MS70 grades and got them listed on ebay. That is super fast and they should be commended!

Matter of fact, I am excited at the bank rolls of uncirculated coins (quarters and dollars) I just got for my kid's allowance (they like coins, especially the SAC dollars)...maybe I should hold off since they are probably MS70 grade if I send them to SGS coin grading. Sorry kids, Daddy is going to get your allowance graded at SGS to MS70. Hey, that looks shiny with full luster...maybe it isn't a MS70, it may be a PR70!!

Like I said, I bit and as a novice, I got screwed...now, I'll make sure others don't get taken like I did!

 

Well at least you have learned a valuable lesson.

Leaning is always a work in progress.

 

WOW -Thank you -I was researching this group thinking they were SEGS -you saved me some grief -thanks again!

 

SEGS does not get the highest rating either. Everyone agrees on the top four.

NGC
PCGS
ANACS
IGC

If you stick to these four, you will be better off.

 

yes, and that astounds me. If you look at who SEGS is made up of -they are all "experts" and researchers -not former dealers or child hood hobbiest -not that there is any downside to the latter -but for the sake of comparing expertise to expertise. Each mentioned has merit, but I just find it perplexing that the "research guys" are not held in as high esteem as the top graders? I mean these guys write books on the coins they grade! They make variety discoveries and respected "type" designations ie VAM. Its interesting that in the business world, if you are a degreed, published engineeer per say -you are one respected dude compared to the mechanic who actually builds and understands the mechanicals -yet in the hobbie world, its the boyhood collector turned grader that holds the respect in grading?

By the way, I dont own any SEGS graded coins -just an observation from time spent pouring over the graders web sites.