Have inherited a 1929 St Gaudens $20 Gold coin. Being from way down under it is very hard to get any sort of valuation. Your grading systems are hard to understand also Could someone have a go at grading from attached photos and giving what sort of price I could expect if auctioned. Thank you for your time
Well, looks like Gary has signed off. The coin, if genuine, should be authenticated due to it's relative scarsity and high value. I would suggest a company like ANACS. The coin is valuable enough to justify having it certified as genuine. Just based on what I can see in the photos, It could well be an uncirculated example, with several bag marks and possibly hairline scratches from being wiped. It could grade anywhere from AU-50 to MS-63, but that is just a guess based on a photograph. Of course, it could very well be a fake. The word "COPY" is often filed off to make these seem genuine. On the reverse, it looks like the sun device has been sanded down. If it is genuine, it should weigh approximately 33.436 grams. and measure 34 mm. in diameter. If genuine, it is probably worth several thousand dollars, possibly a five figure amount. If it's a fake, and there are many very realistic ones on the market, it is worth it's metal value, and being unmarked as a copy, it would be illegal to buy and sell in this country.
More information Thank you for your advice The story of origination that goes with coin is that a friend of my wife’s wanted to get married in the next year being 2003 and mentioned that she had some $20.00 coins that she wanted to sell to pay for the wedding, me being interest told her to bring them around. My eyes nearly dropped out my head when she upended this small purse and 5 gold coins dropped out (I am gold prospector in my spare time so do know the value, I was not expecting gold coins) of which four were $20 and one was a $10 gold coin (1901). After looking at them I advised her to go and get a valuation and in particular not to let the 1929 out of her sight. Some 2 months later I was surprised when she rang up and asked again if I was interested in buying and I told her that the most I could offer was AU$5000.00 for the lot. She accepted. Her story is that her father gave her coins in London just before he died in 1997 and had told her he had bought the coins in Belgium just before the 2nd world war for insulation against the vagrancies of currencies. She then carried them with her all over the world in a bum bag as an itinerant nurse before finally settling in Australia She is still a friend of the family and we went to her wedding. I have no reason to doubt anything she says. MORE INFORMATION ON COIN I have now looked at more closely and on the new photos attached you may see that there are some imperfections, which I will highlight as follows: Obverse – little nick (1mm) as in like another coin dropped onto it on right breast. Could be another smaller scratch below breast on upper thigh. Could be another under right arm pit but under mag looks in minting. All else other than very minute rub / bag marks is perfect. Reverse - very small nick in wing feather just above where tail goes in. also a very very small dent in 2nd from left sun-beam (middle). All else other than very minute rub / bag marks is perfect. I now get to the part I don’t like- The coin measures with verniers 34.3mm head to head and 34.5mm side to side (however 1# 1924 coin measures 34.4mm head to head and 34.2mm across the other1924 coin measures 34.4mm head to head and 34.4mm across and the 1922 measures 34.4mm htoh and 34.5mm across). All thicknesses are 2.5mm The weight for the 1929 is 30.75 grams, the other 3 all 30.35 grams each. Is it possible to have such variations? And what is your general consensus? Right now I don’t feel to good.
Garry, I don't believe the weights and measurements are consistant with those being original US Mint issued coins. I would like to hear what others have to say, but I don't think the news is good. Just for my own curiosity though, is there any chance that the edges have been filed down? This might account for them being out of round and under weight. Check for file marks using a magnifyer. There may be an outside chance that someone tried to gather a little gold dust from them for their own use. Not likely, but still a possibility I suppose.
Under magification there is no evidence of any fileing or the such like on the edges or any surface. I am still at a loss as to why all coins are not within specification. I am getting another set os scales and a set verniers this weekend to check everything, my verniers are not a Rolls Royce version.
All genuine coins are within specification - always. That's the problem here. For decades there have been factories in the middle east that have turned out counterfeit gold coins from all nations - by the ton. And I literally do mean the ton. Hate to say it - but from the sounds of things - you have some of them.
More information on St gaudens Well, I have now thrown my old scales and verniers in the rubbish bin. Will start again with the new facts using properly calibrated measuring equipment. First though – no told me that the diameters should be measured square to the coin between the raised (various heights) letters / stars around the rim. Is this correct way to measure? These letters/stars can seem to vary quite a lot from not bold to very bold and sharp as on the 1929 coin. ---------------------------1929---- 1924---- 1924---- 1922 Diameter head to toe flat--- 34.26--- 34------ 34------ 34.12 Diameter across flat-------- 34.24--- 33.96--- 34------ 34.1 Diameter head to toe square 34------ 34------ 34------ 34 Diameter across square----- 34------ 34.04--- 34------ 34 Weight (gms)----------- 33.9---- 33.5---- 33.5---- 33.5 Your comments would now be appreciated on what you think I know people in Arizona, would I be able to get a authenticity certificate and valuation in Phoenix? Thank you for your time Garry
Welcome back, Garry. To put it simply, the diameter of a coin, is the length of a straight line, that goes from one side to the other, and passes directly through the center. It has nothing to do with measuring between the stars/letters. Your coins can be authenticated by a third party grading service, such as NGC, ANACS, or PCGS. These are for-profit enterprises, so their services will cost you. Their contact info is located at the top of the "Main Coin Forum", in the first post to the thread, "Information and helpful links". Sorry, I don't know about the people in Arizona, so I can't be of help there. Good luck.
If I'm reading you correctly Gary, you are measuring from inside the rims. To illustrate Jody's comment, click on this link to see a 15mm coin being measured with metal verniers. Assuming that your measurements are correct, I'm suspicious of the '22 and really doubt that the '29 is genuine. .12 mm is definitely beyond the rounding accuracy of your vernier, so that makes the '22 vary from spec significantly, although not enough to be considered a broadstrike from somehow escaping the collar. The measurements in this case are inconclusive IMHO. The '29 is not only much wider, but noticeably heavier. Weight tolerances were tightly controlled, even extending to the use of filing "adjustment marks". IMHO the measurements in this case lean strongly in the wrong direction.
The photo shows how I measured what I called the "flat" dimension, there is definately a difference when measured across when you have the verniers between the stars / letters.
The '29 is only a tiny bit out of round, to a degree that is probably possible even though U.S. Mint planchets are round, they are held in round collars while being struck, and normal temperatures they endure after minting are nowhere near enough to cause shape distortion. The real problem is simply that both measurements are just plain too wide.
Try to make clear I do not seem to be making myself clear with respect of the stars/ letters i am refering to. Around the rim there are a series of stars then some letters on my coins, They are definatlely raised with respect of the overall diameter of the bulk of the coin. hence to two different diameters on some of the coins. It looks like i will have to try and get authenticated, will let you all know the outcome.
Garry is talking about the lettered edge on his Double Eagles. "E Pluribus Unum" with the words separated by stars.
