Auction House T and C's: is this normal??

Is it normal for an auction house of some standing to say this below in their T and C?



Lots are sold as shown with all faults, imperfections and errors of description and lack of authenticity. Neither A. H. Baldwin & Sons Ltd nor the vendor shall give any warranty to any buyer in respect of any lot or be liable for any fault or error of description or lack of genuineness or authenticity of any lot. All statements as to items sold, whether made in catalogues, during the course of the auction or otherwise, are statements of opinion only and are not and shall not be taken to be statements or representations of fact.

 

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Well, that would sure make ME jump right in on one of their auctions...

 

I think it is normal. It's that way with auction houses around me.

 

They also refuse condition reports............as I was about to spend several 1,000 dollars
with them on unslabbed coins, I'm thinking only bid on slabbed ones now. Surely if they
sell me a fake for X thousand dollars, they must be liable!!

 

Perhaps they're betting no one will challenge them in court. If the stakes are high enough I have a hard time believing their T&C will hold up.

 

Yes, I agree...I'm sure if they did sell a fake they'd do something about but it just doesn't inspire confidence though..they are a very high status outfit...

 

They basically are saying they are not responsible for their sellers faults

 

I agree but how much actual sense that makes in law is another thing I guess.............

 

I checked the T&C of a couple other english auction houses and that does appear to be fairly standard. That is not the case with US auction houses they do guarantee authenticity With the possible exception of slabbed coins which according to the standard US boilerplate are not returnable for any reason. (You have a problem take it up with the slabbing company.) And of course since today almost every coin sold by the major houses are slabbed that means they no longer guarantee authenticity either. Actually most US terms of sale are somewhat confusing because they tend to have some internal contradictions. They guarantee all coins to be genuine, but slabs are not returnable for any reason. I would assume that includes for reasons of authenticity. This is from Heritage terms of sale:

This statement

Or a variation of it does tend to appear in US auction house terms of sale.

From Heritage

 

Thankyou for your response. I guess my view is that no Company
wants a reputation for selling fakes, so if something goes turn out
not to be genuine, say after sending it to get slabbed; I guess they'd
have to sort it out. Trades Descriptions Act even. However, when I
got one coin coming back from PCGS cleaned and another filed rims
the auction house in Germany told be to go take a hike! Not everyone
on Sixbid are gentlemen eh!?

 

No in the Heritage terms of sale

So if you are buying raw and you are submitting it and the TPG doesn't agree tough. If you think you MIGHT be able to get them to agree to void the sale you have to ask for permission to return it within three days of receiving it. Good luck submitting it and getting it back within three days so you can make a claim. And if you do and the TPG took it out of the auction house holder your return warranty is void. Fortunately the auction houses do tend to be a little more lenient than their terms of sale state, but if you annoy them they can stick by the letter of the agreement.

 

US govt. auctions don;t guarantee authenticity.

 

I hear you. As you said I have had many problems with the UK border agency being difficult but I do still buy from US and Canadian dealers. I am after an expensive coin, probably to flip actually, birds over junk, some are slabbed and one or two others not. The auction is in Hong Kong and the dealer will ship back to UK so I avoid import duties. Baldwins has a super rep and they seem to know their stuff more than other Auction Houses but as as you say, I wouldn't want to buy a raw birds over junk for say 3,000 bucks and get a nasty result from a TPG. Old fashioned greed plays a part in that I have bought a fatman dollar, raw, no picture for £130 from a Spanish dealer.......it arrived and it came back from PCGS MS62...sold for £450. ................I guess I'll bid on the slabbed birds over junk as the stakes will be too high on this one.

 

I buy from European auctions every year Doug. I would never buy unless represented though. US collectors should feel better about it by paying the 5% fee to a trusted US dealer who can represent you at auctions and weed out the problem lots.

I have never had an issue, and have purhased a lot of good values. In ancients, if you do not buy from European auctions, you are severely limiting yourself.

Chris

 

I could do with someone like that at this auction on the 25th in Hong Kong.

 

Most item's are consigned and auction houses are not in the business of grading or authenticating items nor do they have the time.They can't be responsible for someone consigning a fake coin.Chances are the consigner may not even know that what they have is not authentic.
High end art auctions are a little different as they need to authenticate and build trust with potential bidders.
If the house is getting a 25% cut of a say a $10,000.00 painting from the seller and another 10-20% buyers premium from the buyer, then they can afford and will take the time to authenticate.
I assume your talking about online auctions.

 

Baldwins is the auction house, very well known. As the auction is in Kong Kong, I will be bidding online but I wouldn't
describe the event as an online auction.

 

Back before slabbing the auction houses DID do grading and tended to stand behind it more, and they DID authenticate and guaranteed the authenticity. Today most of that is dumped on the TPG's and the auction houses have washed their hands of the whole matter.