I saw a range of chinese coins for sale from a certain Spanish auction house on Sixbid recently and noticed that the coins seemed to look either the same patina, or washed out. Despite trusting this coin website, I was a little concerned. Having asked this auction house about the coins in question they cobbled together a pathetic sort of answer that essentially accepted that at least three of the coins have been cleaned and they knew about it. I replied that this sort of selective and unfrank disclosure was disappointing. They then held their hands-up and agreed with me. My point that as a professional teacher I am held to account all the time by a range of stakeholders but the standard of openness and honestly amongst these sellers often really just seems unacceptable. Why do I have to ask the right question to get an honest answer. This does nothing for our hobby and fosters the notion of being predatory.
Maybe they have recently hired some former eBay sellers who were banned to write their descriptions. If they had just been frank with you at the outset, it might have been better, but now, I don't know if I could trust them. Chris
What were the coins? If they are ancient or medieval it is assumed they have been cleaned. Heck, I would insist they had it cleaned if they tried to sell an uncleaned one! Chris
they were 20th century silver, which if cleaned or polished essentially destroys their value and pcgs won't grade them. .....just encapsulate them as genuine, then you try and sell a coin like that.........marbury
If they are selling them mainly inot the European market, they don't have the mania over "uncleaned" and "Original" that we do. A lot like the US market back in the 50's when cleaning was recommended and dipping ran rampant.
I feel that us Europeans have the same mania for uncleaned coins......and anyway, they should disclose and then let the customer judge. I feel it's just plain unprofessional but clearly part of the landscape we have to deal with.
As a general rule people tend to think that others think like they do. But in truth, they don't. I agree, they should dislose, but again, as a general rule, they don't. And that's because what Conder says is true. Many, many of the coins offered by European sellers and auction houses have been harshly/improperly cleaned. This has been true for as long as I can remember. And stories just like yours are extremely common. In fact most of the time they are even worse in that the auction house will not disclose that any of the coins had been harshly cleaned even when asked. So if I were you I'd count yourself lucky. But by the same token I do not believe this lack of disclosure is an effort by the auction house to deceive. Rather it is due to a lack of caring whether the coin has been harshly cleaned or not. Most people in the European market could care less. They seem to accept harsh cleaning as being the norm and find it in no way detrimental to the coin. The way I look at it is like this. For the most part, Europe and other parts of the world are behind the US when it comes to acceptance of harshly cleaned coins. A few decades ago they were just as accepted in the US. But even in 1960 my grandfather taught me that no coin should ever be harshly cleaned. So even that far back preferences and attitudes about harsh cleaning were changing in the US. Then 25 years later along came the TPGs - something else that is still not generally accepted in Europe but the idea has taken root and is spreading. I believe that in time ideas and attitudes In Europe about harshly cleaned coins will follow the same curve that they did in the US. But that is a ways off in the future.
A certain German AH on Six bid which sold me a polished coin has also sold me one with 'filed rims.' As they were so rude when I contacted them about the polished coin, simply rejecting the PCGS findings, I'd be wasting my time with a complaint about filed rims too I guess. (and no I didn't knowingly buy from them again-just had results back on the filed rim chinese dollar)
Buying RAW coins at auction without seeing them in person and hoping to get them professionally graded sounds like a pretty poor business model to me.
I buy coins all over the world most weeks so I'm not going to be flying around the globe am I? Same auction house I bought a 1991 proof deep cameo 2 oz panda for 300 euro, sold when came back from PCGS at PR68DC for £700. My business model, if you want to call it that, works more often than not. My problem now in the UK Border Agency who charge me to get my coins back from PCGS.
So you think it is a good business model when it breaks your way, but when it breaks against you you want to file complaints? Correct? How much of the windfall did you cut the auction house in for on the Panda? Anything? So it should be their hard luck if they miss something good, but it shouldn't be your hard luck if you get something bad. Wish my life worked like that.
Not sure what you mean by miss something good. Auction Houses make a fixed mark-up from the buyer and seller, so they are are in a win win situation. They are expected to offer a technically accurate description of what they sell as a minimum in my book but they often don't. When their 'errors' or deliberate misleading of customers is brought to their attention they say 'not interested.' Tough luck. If I sell a coin, I am bound by the free market and may make a loss or a profit but what I don't do is deceive. Thus I find your post very odd to say the least.
