Assigning dates to Roman Republican coins

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Valentinian, Jul 9, 2016.

  1. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    How are dates assigned to Roman Republican denarii? Unlike under the empire, there is no portrait of an emperor to narrow down the date range. Most second-century BC denarii have nothing on them that pins them to a timeline. So, what do scholars do to pick dates for them?

    I wrote two pages on this. One is a timeline with discussion of numerous historical events and related types, and the other is on the methods of assigning dates in a period when so few types can be related to events with certainty.

    http://esty.ancients.info/Repub/TimelineTable.html

    Cr281s1SR156o40.JPG Cr281s1SR156r40.JPG
    What is the date of this coin? How can we know?

    Read my pages to find out.
     
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  3. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Great pages and no easy read but the subject is more than complex. Pay special attention to the proposed dates going back and forth between the various references. I doubt that we have heard the last on this subject. A complete update/revision of Crawford will be a lot of work but there are a lot of people studying Republicans so it will happen.
     
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  4. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Thanks, Warren! That is a very well constructed and useful page.
     
  5. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Ditto. I will be using the information for sure. I hate relying on the seller's information.
     
  6. rrdenarius

    rrdenarius non omnibus dormio

    Great write-up!
     
  7. red_spork

    red_spork Triumvir monetalis

    Thanks, Warren, this is an excellent read. Dating of these types is difficult and as you've mentioned, revisions have been made since Crawford's publishing, particularly in light of the Mesagne Hoard. Another good work, redating several Republican issues(though still largely agreeing with Crawford's overall chronology), is "Roman Republican Coinage c. 150-90 B.C." by H.B. Mattingly, published in Coinage of Macedonia and Rome: Essays in honour of Charles Hersh (If you're interested in Republican numismatics at all, this is a highly suggested book). Mattingly's arguments are largely based on hoard evidence, and in some cases reinterpreting previous hoard evidence.
     
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  8. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    Red, you are right. I have that book and didn't include his arguments or his dates . I'll take a look. One thing to like about web sites, as opposed to books, is they are easy to revise.
     
  9. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Thanks Warren! VERY interesting work. You continue to amaze me.
     
  10. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    Our member red_spork suggested another important reference work by Harold B. Mattingly. I have read it and incorporated its arguments in the comments and dating columns. Thank you very much, red! Mattingly discusses the time period 150-90 BC in light of about a dozen hoards that were not available to Crawford. The biggest changes in the page are associated with the coins of c. 141 BC (The XVI type) and 137 BC (non-traditional types, including adding to the page the wolf-and-twins FOSTLVS type). The rightmost column now has Mattingly's revised dates. The fact they often differ from Crawford's dates demonstrates how hard it is to pin down Republican dates.

    Read the page
    http://esty.ancients.info/Repub/TimelineTable.html
    if you want to know how it is done.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2016
  11. Mikey Zee

    Mikey Zee Delenda Est Carthago

    A very impressive and fascinating compilation @Valentinian !!!

    I will be constantly consulting the data and information you compiled for quite some time to come!
     
  12. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    Thanks for the update, Warren. Those are very illuminating pages.
     
  13. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    Today I added to the references on dating Republican coins, with comments.
    http://esty.ancients.info/Repub/TimelineTable.html
    (The bulk of the page is unchanged.)
    I found reviews of Harlan's second book and of Hollstein's book, and both are pretty negative. It seems that scholars don't agree with other scholars on dates and meanings of coin types in the late Republic.

    That makes it interesting!
     
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  14. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    My research bookmark links keeps getting longer. Thanks Warren.
     
  15. WuntBeDruv

    WuntBeDruv Active Member

    I came across this while doing some research on something I am writing. Unfortunately, the link no longer seems to work!

    Could you please repost an updated one? Thanks!
     
  16. Broucheion

    Broucheion Well-Known Member

    cmezner and Curtis like this.
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