anyone up for a contest

Unfortunatly very little is known about the so called Continetal Currency dollar of 1776.

Congress has no records the coins existed in 1776 and no evidence of them being autorized or minted

There is no mention of them being used by anyone for anything anywhere in 1776 nor are they mentioned in history books or writings.


The only mention of such a coin was a reference in a local newpaper article dated 1776 but the coin mentioned was made of copper and there was no mention of a coin struck in pewter or silver.

The info found online regarding these coins is only an educated guess made by Mr Eric P Newman however he has no facts to support his theory and with nothing better to offer those who disagreed have all but faded away leaving Newmans assumptions uncontested for over 50 years.

According to Mr Eric P Newman....Elisha Gaullaudet redesigned Benjamin Franklins original design 7 times and struck 6000 coins.... in three different types of metal......with three different spellings with various sizes and weights .....in less than 3 months .....in a country that did not have a mint in operation.....and he managed to do so without anyone including congress and the superintendant of finnance knowing they existed.

However my common sense does not allow me to beleive this is possible ..in fact I am prepared to contest Newmans guesswork with documented facts that prove his theory is incorrect.

and I am asking you to be the judge!!


Anyone up for a contest ??

 

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Mr Newman assumed Elisha Gaullaudet made the continental coins because his initals are EG and the coin says EG FECIT

but in less than proper latin EG FECIT means...... Made by example ...

the coins struck in pewter did not exist in 1776 they were made much later when America had a mint and they are not coins they are tokens to commemorate the declaration of independance and they were made by example of the original coins that were designed by and made by Benjamin Franklin in 1775


Consider the facts ...

Elisha engraved continential paper currency in February 1776

In June 1776 he moved his family from New York to Philidelphia ....and you couldnt rent a U-haul trucks and drive there ..like everything else in those days it took time

SO where did he find the time to redesign Franklins coin SEVEN times never mind strike 6000 of them ....and where do you suppose he did this... America didnt have a mint in 1776 ?

even if he had a makeshift mint he did not have the knowledge, experience or equiptment to produce coins of that quality ....

Franklin designed the coins to prevent counterfeiters from counterfeiting coins and the security features were very complex....definately not something that could be reworked from a drawing....especally when Franklin lived in England from 1757 - 1775

Using your common sense do you think Elisha Gaullaudet was responsible for making the continental currency coins in 1776?

 

Three months = 90 days.
6000 items doesn't seem impossible. That'd be 67 coins a day? Let's say 10 coins per hour, based upon 4-6 minutes per coin. You're striking by hand, so you wouldn't need a mint. You'd need an anvil and a very heavy hammer. It seems feasible that a specialist would also have access to a smithy or forge. Given this was during the 1700s, it's also reasonable to assume there would be slaves or servants to assist in production.

So, let's figure five people on the team. That brings the total to a definitely manageable "coin per hour" rate.

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but "eg" is not a word in Latin and "fecit" is translated roughly, in Elisha's case, as "he made it".

Chris

 

how many coins could a servant strike if a servant could strike coins

Yes but the servants would have known about the coins if they were making them and someone would have mentioned the fact that they existed.I would like to thank you very much for your reply you obviously have considerable knowledge regarding the making of coins in the 1700's and I appreciate your input ....However I think you may have forgot to consider the fact that it would have taken much longer to redesign the coins than it would to make them. The design is complex the 13 circles must be in place and so must the words on obverse. The weight had to be just right and because they were made in three types of metal the weight and size would need to be adjusted accordingly.You must also take into consideration that Benjamin Franklin lived in England when he designed and made the original copper continental coins while Elisha Gaullaudet lived 3000 miles across the ocean.The people responsible for making the continental currency coins of 1776 were not servants and slaves ..they were a group of the most intelligent scientists in the world. The coin was a scientific mathematical experiment of sorts with security features that could not have been copied from a drawing.Question .../...Clue Were the examples struck in pewter struck in a collar ?

 

EG might have a second meaning. As it does in other contexts, EG might stand for exempli gratis, or 'for the sake of example.' Thus, the second meaning of EG FECIT, in less than proper Latin, might have been something like, 'made for the sake of example.' In this scenario, the variety with EG FECIT could represent a pattern and, contrary to general belief, might have been made early in the series."

Rest removed due to forum rules ~copyright material.

 

SORRY !!

I didnt realize I posted the whole article

 

I have to disagree with your interpretation of the meaning of "EG FECIT".

It was very common for 18th century artists to use the letter "F" or the word "FECIT" after their name to indicate that they designed it. However, it isn't logical that Elisha would use the letters "EG" for two distinctly separate Latin words and then spell out "FECIT". Why wouldn't he have simply used "EGF". The problem with this, is that letters used in those days were always separated either by a space or a dot (.) or star (*) or something similar to indicate an abbreviation for each word. Therefore, you would expect to see something like "E G F" instead. It was also very common for designers of that era to use their initials followed by "FECIT", so the configuration of "EG FECIT" is more apt to indicate Elisha's design rather than the scenario you propose.

By the way, you can walk from New York to Philadelphia in three days or less.

Chris

 

Actually its not my interpetation its from The Collection of a Patriotic American. (#795)


Elisha Gaullaudet did not have the experience nor the intelligence to redesign the complex security features of Franklins original continential currency coin which was made of copper not pewter.in England not America...

definition of "Continental Currency" in the online Merriam-Webster's dictionary:

: the paper money issued by the Continental Congress during the American Revolution

: a series of early American pattern dollar-size coins, struck in England in pewter, silver, and brass and bearing on the obverse the legend “Continental Currency” and the date 1776

To read the complete article (behind a paywall), see: www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/continental%20currency


When and where do you suppose the 6000 redesigned coins were made?

Elisha may have been able to walk to Philadelphia but I doubt he made coins along the way ..

Where did he get the equipment and material (metal) to make 6000 coins in three different types of metal ?

Who authorized and paid him to make the coins ?

Who used them ..where and what for?

Why did he change the design so many times ?

these questions are basic and they should be very simple to answer. instead the answers are either unknown or they don't make sense.


Can you provide one fact that says the copies struck in pewter existed in 1776 ?

Or one history book that mentions them in 1776 ?


They do not have the characteristics nessescary to be classified as a coin but they have the exact discription of a commemorative token

 

So, you can reef your sails and try a different tack, but you still haven't addressed the interpretation, by whomever, of EG FECIT.

The fact that you're citing contentions professed by others does not, in itself, refute this. It certainly isn't the first time that someone would create their own study and their own set of "facts" just to support their opinion.

Chris

 

Lets just forget about what I said or he said or she said ...all i would like to know is the answers to the questions I asked you .....if you do not know the answers that is fine just say so.

I am not interested in a debate regarding the info I have already researched ..but thank you for your interest just the same

 

Seems to me that you started with post #1 , wanting posters to be judges, but now that some seem to be questioning your research, you are no longer interested in that, but rather people saying how correct and logical you are.

Well it won't happen on this forum, people have their own background knowledge and often do not concur readily, If you just want to present your research , do so, but expect contrary opinions and deal with them properly or I will close this thread.

Thanks

Jim

 

I did not mean to sound ungrateful I was thanking him for taking an interest

I think we just got off on the wrong foot .....I didnt mean to be rude but all I would like is for someone to simply answer my questions
Some of your members have put alot of faith into something they know nothing about other than what they read in their coin catelouge....

I'll bet most of them dont even know the information they are quoting as the truth was only a guess and the person who provided the info has no facts to support it.

unless they know something the rest of us dont and if so I am very curious to know what it is because as far as I am concerned not only is the guess incorrect it doesnt even make sense....

There is no way Elisha Gaullaudet redesigned and struck 6000 coins in pewter in 1776.....absoluetly IMPOSSIBLE .....and I can prove he didnt .

If he had made the coins the answers to my questions would be very simple to answer

but In this case there are no answers to give ....you cant say where or when something was made if it wasn't made ...

....the term UNKNOWN is just an excuse.


If there is anyone who can answer the questions with fact I would appreciate it if they would reply ....but I wont hold my breath ...LOL !!

 

DOES anyone know what EG FECIT means in less than proper latin ?

 

Pewtertoy, the continental currency WAS made in 1776, and it WAS approved by congress. Unfortunately they did not go into production

 

according to the Red Book, Eg Fecit roughly translates to Elisha Gallaudet, the striker's name, and Fecit, or He made it.

 

Where did he get the equipment and material (metal) to make 6000 coins in three different types of metal ?

I am no expert here. I would think Newman would be that person but you don't seem to want to believe him.
From what I have heard, Franklin was across the big pond getting funding for the war and purchasing minting equipment.

Who authorized and paid him to make the coins ?

I would doubt they were authorized. But that did not stop people from making what they want. Look at Daniel Carr's coins. What does it matter who authorized them?

Who used them ..where and what for?

Possibly no one used them.

Why did he change the design so many times

​

Have you heard of patterns? Coins are made many times trying to perfect the patterns before mass producing them.

Can you provide one fact that says the copies struck in pewter existed in 1776 ?​

Nope, don't need to. Can you provide one fact that they were not? Didn't think so. Doesn't prove anything?

Now why did you post this? You ask if anyone is ready for a contest? I don't see how this is a contest unless your talking a pee'ing contest.
And common knowledge states they were made by Elisha, that means if you want to change the norm, the burden of proof is on you.



​

 

To date congress has no record of a continental curency coin in 1776 and no evidence that they were authorized or minted


Robert Morris did not know of a coin that had been struck in 1776 however he did know about the coin Franklin originally made ...but it was not struck ..it was engraved and stamped ....but thats another story


do you know the answers to my questions ...?

does anyone have an answer to my questions ?

 

Contests normally include a prize and are normally placed in the Contest Forum, I'm just sayin'. :yes:

 

Did you just ignore my post?
lol