Just wondering if anyone collects the pre coinage types. I have a chance to buy these just wondering what your thoughts are ?
Those are pretty cool. I'm not sure if this counts, but the only thing I would consider "pre-coinage" that FFIVN and I have is this: Aw dang. I cant find the image of my Olba dolphin....
No idea, but: Catawiki shows one heart similar as a 300-400 AD bronze weight and another heart as: "Roman Republic - Decorated heart shaped pre-coin of Aes Formatum 4th BC"
Do I??? In Italy, as with other nations, early trade used a system of barter. Aes rude(Latin: "rough bronze"), used perhaps as early as the early 8th century B.C., was the earliest metal proto-currency in central Italy. In the 5th century B.C., bronze replaced cattle as the primary measure of value in trade. Aes rude are rough lumpy bronze ingots with no marks or design, some are flat and oblong, others are square, while many are irregular and shapeless. The metal is mostly copper with roughly 5% tin. Weight varies considerably with some exceeding twelve pounds and others under an ounce. Many smaller examples are fragments of broken larger specimens. A balance was necessary to measure value for commercial transactions. weight 35.881g, length 36.1mm Aes premonetale. Aesformatum, 6th-4th century BC. AE. g. 64.72 mm. 40.00. Former ArtemideKunstauktionen ROMAN REPUBLIC Aes Formatum. Centuries VI-IV BCE CENTRAL ITALY or LAZIO. Anv .: Element in semicircular shape on one side and serrated on the other./ Ancient Batarang Condition: Very Fine 83.41 gr 56.70 mm Former Ares
I like Proto-Monies... Very cool I have posted these before, but I am trying to get @Ryro to spend all his money and starve his family... BRONZE AX MONEY ITALIA Aes Formatum AE Bronze Ax Head ca 5th-4th C BCE sextans size 44.8mm 56g Sextans size? and the AES RUDE I believe mine was molten bronze dumped in water process... Italia Aes Rude - bronze ca 5th-4th Century BCE 29.7mm 32.4g Uncia sized? Proto-Money: Oscan-Latin Aes Formatum scallop shell with Ribs 4th BCE Oscan-Latin Aes Formatum shell 25mm 12.8g DOLPHINS: Thrace - Olbius AE Dolphin money CELTIC: Celtic AE Ring 800-500 BCE CHINA: China Zhou -Chou- 1000-200 BCE Dynasty Bronze cowrie - VF - Rare China Cowrie Shell Pottery China Zhou Dyn 1122-255 BC AE Chuan Bead Money 40mm China Shang Dyn 1766-1154 BC Ant Nose Ge Liu Zhu 2-6g 19-5x11 very scarce H 1-10 China Zhou Dynasty 1046-256 BCE AE Fish Money 67mm 9.5g AB Coole Enc Chinese Coins 6920ff EX: @Ken Dorney
I have just one, an Olbia dolphin. It's pretty neat, but I still tend to gravitate more towards Imperial Roman coins. There's a bit more variety in these, they're often very cheap, and the collecting avenues are endless.
@furryfrog02, here are a couple of examples of those Olbian dolphins that you mentioned. The residents of Olbia presumably enjoyed watching them jumping in the Black Sea. These cast metal items were relatively flat, and a medium of exchange; but if part of one's definition of a "coin" is that it be round, they obviously don't meet that criterion. Some had an inscription, I believe most did not. Note the relative differences in weight of the two pictured below. Some refer to them as proto-money. Others call them dolphin coinage. There are differing views on the emergence of "money" and "coins" from a bartering system or the use of specific weights of metals. I'd like to hear the thoughts of CoinTalk members on this topic. Olbia 437-410 BC. 31 mm. 3.16 g. 27 mm. 1.86 g.
Aes rude - from central Italy, first piece from hoard found in Emilia Romagna near Bologna @ 460 grs, c. 4th - 6th century BC. Also, bronze ax from central Italy about same period.
Being interested in the Roman republic, I wanted to have one example of these lumps of bronze that once facilitated trade. Aes formatum or aes rude? Here are the definitions that I used to decide "aes formatum" - is there a well accepted classification? "Aes rude are amorphous pieces of bronze of irregular weight without any official stamp or mark while aes formatum are pieces of bronze which have a certain shape." - Bertol & Farac (2012, Aes rude and aes formatum - a new topology based on the revised Mazin Hoard also the definition on this page: "Still today, some authorities call these cast shapes aes rude, some call them both aes rude and aes formatum (classifying aes formatum is a type of aes rude), and others identify the cast shapes as aes formatum only (with aes rude the precursor to and different from aes formatum)." I added a denarius to the photo to show the scale - a little over 615 grams and 103 cubic centimeters of bronze. This one a quadrilateral, brick-shaped ingot. This is the only "coin" I have that might have other uses: hammer, paperweight, doorstop...while the numbers from this site do suggest that bronze was an improvement in portability vs. oxen (100 lbs of bronze = 1 ox), both seem a bit inconvenient to carry. Roman Republican, aes formatum, rough brick shape, ~5th-4th century BC, Central Italy (ex private collection ex Munich auction house 1990s) Obv: oxidized bronze Rev: oxidized bronze Size: 615g, 103 cubic cm.
I've always found it very odd that the Greek or Anatolian pre-coins were not collected as commonly as the Roman, Celtic, Chinese or the north Black Sea region pre-coins. We know that they existed (e.g. Attic rod-shaped oboloi or Ionian/Lydian unmarked silver and electrum lumps), but I've never seen them offered for sale, nor are they mentioned as anything but a footnote when discussing/presenting the later marked electrum, etc. types. Is it correct to assume that the Greek/Anatolian pre-coinage is extremely rare? If so - why (considering the - relative - abundance of other cultures' pre-coins)?
I guess the closest pre-coinage object that I have is the Babylonian frog, a stone weight at around 1.5 shekels. Old Babylonian Period, ca. first half of the 2nd Millennium BC. The frog is superbly sculpted in a green mottled stone with white inclusions. Excellent even finishing brings out the moss-like patterns in the stone. American Private Collection, acquired 1981. L. 2 7/8" H. 1 5/8" (7.3 cm x 4 cm).
Edited: Since you are new, please read the rules, ( click on FORUMS) and they are the second one down. A member can not post Buy/Sell/trade items in the coin forums, only in classified after 10 normal posts. Jim
