Those pix make it really rough. If I had to guess, the first might be a Otacilia Severa, Antoninianus, with [something] AVGG reverse. Like this one: https://www.vcoins.com/en/stores/nu...ome_au5558_billon_ric125c/826204/Default.aspx Here's a sesterius with a closer obverse legend break. Pic is from Numiscorner coin at Vcoins now.
The other coin's reverse legend is probably APOLLIN -I SANCTO (to holy Apollo). Pescennius Niger struck coins with this reverse, though I don't know who else did. Niger's pretty rare, so that ID is unlikely. But it might give you a starting point. And who knows? It might be Niger. Can't tell from the pix. The photo below is from Wildwinds.
The style of these makes me think of Slavei, the famous Bulgarian faker. While the reverse of the Apollo really looks like his, the obverse is not his Pescennius. Mules exist and I can not ID the intended ruler. The Otacilia should be larger if it were the antoninianus but Slavei made a set of the very rare last denarii. Otacilia antoniniani should have a crescent under the bust so this appears to have been a denarius attempt. I don't own the Otacilia but suspect she would fit my group shot down on the bottom row with Decius and Herennia. The rug photo makes me wonder if these may be casts of the original struck fakes. It is hard to tell if the unsharpness is coin or photo.
Yikes. I just grabbed it from wildwinds. I will check the text there to see if it's noted. If not, I will send Dane a note.
I don't know why the coin posted from wildwinds is deemed to be a fake. It is from the same dies as the one sold by (for example) Baldwins/Dmitry Markov/M&M at the New York Sale VII, Lot 261. (Jan 2004) AND from the same dies as the coin sold at the Bertolami Fine Arts ACR Auction 19, Lot 653 (Nov 2015). I cannot find any images of a fake of this kind (Apollo with branch!) in any of Ivan Prokopov's work, nor in any of a number of other lists of fakes. So before I mark it as a definite fake, I would ask for some information instead of just "The niger posted by Gavin is a forgery" which would mean that the Baldwins/M&M and the Bertolami coins mentioned above were also forgeries. Are there other fakes online anywhere from the same dies ? (There are none on Forvm's Fake Gallery nor on forgerynetwork.)
Here are the three for comparison. from top to bottom: Edgar Owen (2009 I think), Bertolami (2015), New York Sale (2004). I don't have time to look for others.
All are transfer die forgeries. Also one in a CNG sale and I have photos of at least 5 others. Barry Murphy.
Same manufacture as this from cng. I have photos of 4 or 5 of these as well as this obverse paired with a different reverse.
Wow, @Barry Murphy ! Thanks for the FAKEs heads-up! I have Pescennius Niger on my target-list. Your posts will help me wade through the mine field! THANK YOU!
Perhaps this is too complex a question. But how can the intermediate collector recognize "transfer die" forgeries? I think I'm getting pretty decent at spotting cast fakes. How can a person just eyeball a coin and say, "Yep. Transfer die forgery"? If it's because the coin looks eerily similar to another coin, why can't that be a simple die match? Is there any detail that would give the "transfer die forgery" away? Here's what I understand: "Transfer dies: These are the most common used and also the most deceptive. The counterfeiters actually create a working die this time, but since they are using the same die all imperfections struck from those dies will go onto the coins." -- http://www.coinsarefun.com/2013-03-02-20-19-38/understanding-counterfeit-coins This article from Coinsweekly suggests recognizing transfer die fakes really is a matter of knowing all the known dies: "Fakes coming from transfer dies are so dangerous, because these fakes have neither the characteristics of casts nor the characteristics of coins that have been struck with newly cut dies. You neither can recognize them by looking for casting holes, nor by comparing the style with a surely original coin. You have to apply a different method in order to detect transfer dies: the die study, the comparison of all known specimens that were struck with the same die. Doing a die study is a hard and lengthy business, but it is no witchcraft. You will need a good library containing as many auction catalogues as possible and you have to spend a lot of time in order to collect as many specimens of the same die as the questioned piece as possible.... As the fake that was made by a transfer die must have the same characteristics as its 'mother piece', it becomes possible to detect these fakes as soon as there is known either a brother or the mother. And as most counterfeiters do not produce only one fake, but a series, detection of this special group of fakes is possible." http://www.coinsweekly.com/en/Archive/How-to-detect-forgeries/8?&id=16&type=a
OK Barry, thankyou. So poor old Edgar Owen (the Pietas coin is also one of his) has two fakes in his shop. I'll add these to my own files of fakes. Actually I noticed after I posted the three-in-one images that they all have the same small fault to the left of Apollo's chin. The Pietas coins look like they are one and the same if you compare the positions of the cracks and dings around the edge, except that the CNG coin appears to have been hit with a hammer to flatten the details. For anyone who is interested, the second Pietas coin above was CNG, Electronic Auction 395, Lot 354, April 2017. (ex Thomas Bentley Cederlind collection) with an estimate of $1,000.
