Another Lion Dollar Newp

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by messydesk, Mar 17, 2022.

  1. PaulTudor

    PaulTudor Well-Known Member

    The coin is almost 26 grams! I was interested in it as i thought it might be a Transylvanian piece but it's not apparently. Could be struck in Eastern Europe but maybe in a different place! Still waiting for an opinion from a top dutch dealer atm, will keep you updated!
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  3. PaulTudor

    PaulTudor Well-Known Member

    1633 Overijssel daalder, the only one that I’ve ever seen with the legend MO ARG PER CON, legend that’s not mentioned in Delmonte!

    5EA61712-288B-461C-A343-51E91EBD22BC.jpeg C5BA7B23-0217-4CC8-8F8D-F8B74CC38973.jpeg DFA5E422-70C9-4F8B-8B92-AEC53AE2FEC5.jpeg
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  4. robinjojo

    robinjojo Supporter! Supporter

    Hi Paul

    That is an unusual legend, one that I have not seen before.

    I've been spending time at another site, so I haven't had time to post some coins. I'll try to do that this week or next week.

    This in not a lion daalder or a coin for that matter. It is a silver medal issued in 1574 to commemorate the lifting of the Spanish siege of Leiden on October 3, 1574. This was a pivotal event in the early years of the war between Spain and the United Provinces.

    Obverse: illustration of the siege on the city of Leiden, inscription: "SIC•HISPA•A•LEYD•NOCTV•FVG" [Spanish fled Leiden in the night] and the date of liberation: October third, 1574.

    Reverse: illustration from the Book of Kings – Sanherib's army (King of Asyria) fleeing Jerusalem and the inscription: "VT.SANHERIB•A•IERVSALEM 2•REG•19" [as Sanherib fled Jerusalem, Book of Kings 2, 19]

    51.03 grams

    D-Camera Netherlands AR silver medal the siege of Leyde october 1574 51.03g 6-21-22.jpg
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  5. chlorinated

    chlorinated Well-Known Member

    Super cool medal!
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  6. PaulTudor

    PaulTudor Well-Known Member

    I have another challenge for you, just bought this one, hope to receive it soon. What do you think it is? One hint: it is dutch!
    489035552_015edf07-7840-4fe4-876d-ea51f0917ad2.jpg 489035552_757cccfd-01c3-4b9d-b509-882a00c3d3d0.jpg
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  7. robinjojo

    robinjojo Supporter! Supporter

    Very interesting!

    A first impression was that it is an imitative coin. The legends are not the standard type one encounters normally, but it is not Correggio, Transylvania or German.

    I know that imitations were made in the Dutch East Indies, but since you say it is from the United Provinces I can't say I know.
  8. PaulTudor

    PaulTudor Well-Known Member

    It was minted in Hedel!
  9. robinjojo

    robinjojo Supporter! Supporter

    That's very interesting. I checked my Davenport reference and Hedel isn't included.

    I would be very interested in getting the coin's weight and perhaps better photos?

    The coin appears to be from the 17th century, but do you have a more precise date, even though a date is not evident on the coin. I see a crown above the lion, so the coin might be from the late 16th century.

    On the obverse legend I see the "H", which I assume refers to Hedel, but I wonder how the rest of the legend translates.

    Did you acquire this coin from a Dutch seller?
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  10. robinjojo

    robinjojo Supporter! Supporter

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  11. PaulTudor

    PaulTudor Well-Known Member

    It wasn't from a Dutch seller, but it was a dutch friend/lion dollars expert who told me what it was as i had no idea. I'v seen the Italian, Transylvanian, Rietberg ones, but never this type before. I know 3 past sales, all with the rev legend :QVIS. NISI.DEVS .TIME.EVM. Mine has : QVIS. NISI.DEVS .ERGO.TIME.EVM. Will post more photos once i get it!
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  12. PaulTudor

    PaulTudor Well-Known Member

    And here's one that's not Dutch, nor Italian, in fact, i have no idea where it's from, after consulting myself with some experts in the field. A 1/2 piece from 157_ 0r 167_ !

    j,j.png yjy.png
  13. robinjojo

    robinjojo Supporter! Supporter

    Interesting. Could it be from Correggio?

    Here's another odd ball lion daalder, clearly an imitation, possibly Middle East, Indonesia, or some obscure city.

    It has a strange shield on the obverse, not with the typical rampant lion, but with a geometrical arrangement of three cone or triangular elements, two on the bottom and one in the middle pointing down. This is strange since one would expect a lion on the obverse, similar but smaller in scale to the one on the reverse. I tried to lookup 17th century coat-of-arms for cities in Germany and Italy, since many imitations emanated from cities within kingdoms of those regions, but with no luck.

    The coin is very crudely based on a lion daalder from Utrecht (TRA), either 1631 or 1681, the date's third numeral is quite muddled. The coin was hammer struck and the coin appears to be contemporary to the 17th century.

    This coin weighs 21.3 grams, which puts it slightly over 75 percent of a lion daalder weight standard of 27.6800 grams. The coin's diameter is 40 mm, but the flan is fairly thin. I don't see any signs of a copper core or silver plating, unlike the half lion daalder of Franco Mazzetti that I posted earlier in this thread.

    D-Camera Netherlands imitation lion daalder based on Utrecht 1631 or 81 21.3g 7-13-22.jpg

    Paul, do you think your Dutch connection might be able to help ID this coin?

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  14. PaulTudor

    PaulTudor Well-Known Member

    According to my friend, it is most likely an Asian imitation. I have not seen such a strange piece in my life to be honest!
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  15. robinjojo

    robinjojo Supporter! Supporter


    I think that is the most plausible explanation, as these coins were widely copied/imitated.

    If I recall correctly that coin came from a MA Shops dealer, but I forgot the name and the coin's label doesn't have that information, just cutouts of the coin's two sides.

    Do you have a photo of your Hedel lion daalder? I would really like to see it.
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