Ancients => Strike ... Strike ... Strike => you're outta there, Boeotia!!

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by stevex6, Mar 11, 2015.

  1. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    When I first saw this sweet coin I thought "wow, what a cool 3/4-facing coin" ...

    => then I noticed that this sweet example was an over-strike on top of another coin that I love!! (that's when I knew that I was gonna be blowin' my March budget) ...

    hey, please don't judge me, my awesome coin-comrades ...

    I hope that you can figure-out what's goin' on and then once you do, I hope that you think that it's pretty fricken cool!!

    Cheers, man => yah, coins rock, eh?


    BOEOTIA, Federal Coinage (Overstrike), Æ18
    Circa 220s BC
    Diameter: 17.5 mm
    Weight: 5.11 grams
    Obverse: Head of Demeter or Kore (Persephone) three-quarter face right, wearing corn-wreath
    Reverse: Poseidon, naked, standing left, resting right foot on rock and leaning on trident; to right, ΒΟΙΩΤ[ΩΝ] downward
    Reference: BCD Boiotia 108 (this coin); HGC 4, 1182. VF, dark brown patina. Overstruck on Æ of Antigonos Gonatas of the type SNG Cop. 1214-1221
    Other: 12h … the overstrikes are reversed on this coin, which is quite rare

    Ex BCD Collection (Triton IX, 10 January 2006), lot 108


    Boeotia Federal Coinage Overstrike a.jpg Boeotia Federal Coinage Overstrike b.jpg



    Yah, even by itself, this coin is pretty cool, right? ...

    => I mean "wow" ... who doesn't love a coin with a 3/4 facing portrait of Demeter or Kore (Persephone), right? ... oh, and then toss-in a sweet pose with Poseidon (total money-shot, correct?)

    Yah => then I realized that those two awesome things were struck onto another one of my favourite coin examples ...

    => yup, they used an AE Antigonos Gonatas as the starting-point!! (man, how could this coin lose?!!)


    Boeotia Federal Coinage Overstrike Host c.jpg

    NOTE => yah, its awesome .... on the OP-coin's obverse, you can see the horse's head at "6 o'clock" and it's feet somewhere around 10 to 11 o'clock (very cool)

    ... oh, and on the OP-coin's reverse, you can still make-out the underlying head of Hercules (his nose being at approximately 12 midnight - one o'clock) ... how fricken cool, right?

    => really fricken cool, my coin-friends!!

     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2015
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  3. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

    oh wow, what an interesting coin...i'm glad you posted the under coin (or whatever you call it) or i wouldn't have figured that out. super march coin budget buster stevex!
     
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  4. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    Great stuff, steve!
     
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  5. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    I know, right?

    => this coin is very cool!!

    ... unfortunately, now I'm "spent"
     
  6. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    Hey, please post any coins that are relevant ... ummm, you guys know what I mean, right?

    => please post anything!! .... overstrikes, 3/4-facing, ummmm, *whateva*

    c'mon => be creative (I'm certainly "not" gonna judge ya!!)

    :woot:
     
  7. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    That is one cool messed up coin! I saw it and was interested but then saw the ol' X6 brand.

    Neato pickup, coinbro :)
     
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  8. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    How bout' some over-strikes, or perhaps some cool counter-stamps ... or perhaps even any brockage-errors?

    => basically, do you cool coin-dudes have any f-upped coins?

    ... anybody?

    If you do => then please post 'em!!

    Cheers

    Okay, fine => here are a few counter-stamps and brockage errors as humble examples ...


    balbus error.jpg Cilicia Tarsos countermark.jpg coin2b.jpg syracuse heraclius countermark.jpg Heraclius CM Justin I.jpg Illyria Dyrrhachion Brockage Error.jpg Kings of Borp Eagle counterstamp.jpg


    Kings of Numidia Micipsa.jpg Pamphylia Gallienus.jpg

    => please dig-deep, my coin-friends ... I love joking with you guys and comparing "our stuff" ...
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2015
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  9. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Peek-a-boo Jesus. He's knocking on the door and he brought some beer :D

    Byzantine overstrikes are common but this one tickled me.

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    Thanks, Coin-Princess ... your coins rock!!

    => yup, it does look like Jesus is swiggin' a draft-beer, eh? (very cool)
     
  11. ancientnut

    ancientnut Well-Known Member

    My only overstrike and my oldest coin:

    [​IMG]

    Tarentum, Calabria, AR stater, c 480-470 BC, OBV: TARAΣ (retrograde); Nude Phalanthos riding dolphin right; scallop shell below; cable border around / REV: Wheel with four spokes and central hub within incuse circle. One of the auction catalogs included the following observation:

    "Careful examination of this coin reveals traces of an undertype, suggesting that it was struck over a Corinthian stater dated circa 500 BC. Around the scallop shell can be seen the outline of the distinctive curved wing and back of a Corinthian Pegasos (for comparison, see SNG Dewing 1713ff). The appearance of this undertype is a vivid reminder of the important trade that existed between Magna Graecia and mainland Greece for which Corinth and her colonies along the Adriatic were essential middlemen. Its strategic harbor encouraged Tarentum to seek to dominate this trade across the Adriatic and Ionian seas."
     
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  12. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    wow ancientnut => your coin is very interesting (it's older than my example and it's a cool Tarentum Stater) ... it's hard to beat, my friend
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2015
  13. Eng

    Eng Senior Eng

    Steve your new over struck coin is sweet!! i currently don't have any over strucks to show. yours awesome!!
     
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  14. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    WOW!! ...

    Yah, this coin is actually so, so cool ... if you take a toke and then look at it slightly cock-eyed, then you'll see that the horse totally envelops the 3/4 face ...

    => wow, this coin is soooo fricken cool ...


    :woot:

    Boeotia Federal Coinage Overstrike a.jpg

    stoned bee.jpg
     
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  15. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    Thats pretty cool!
     
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  16. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    Ummm, nobody else has any overstrikes? ...

    => c'mon (make my day)

    thanks, gang

    :rolleyes:
     
  17. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Constantius Gallus Falling Horseman of Siscia overstruck on Constantius II Two Captives of Aquileia AE2
    [​IMG]
    This strange coin was struck twice at different times in different mints. The second use of the flan upgraded the middle denomination of the original series to the only denomination after a change in weight standards. I suspect many coins were melted and reminted into the new series but this one took a shortcut. The top half of the illustration is set to feature the undertype. On the original obverse is the bust of Constantius II facing left. You can see the top of his head and a tip of his nose but strongest is the entire original obverse legend DN CONSTAN TIVS PF AVG. Following the AVG is a bit of the back shoulder of the portrait. On the reverse we see just the feet of the two captives (the soldier with them is missing) but underneath is the full AQP. mintmark. To the left are the small letters FE which run into the larger letters TIVSIVNN from the overstrike obverse. Beyond that, at the right, we see small letters again REPARATIO. In general the undertype won the edge lettering battle but lost the central details.
    The lower part of the illustration shows the same photos rotated and reversed now to feature the overstrike. On the obverse all we see is that TIVSIVNN from DNCONSTANTIVSIVNNOBC with just a trace of the final C showing if you care to see it. The reverse scene is pretty full but only MPRE from FEL TEMP RE PARATIO shows. There is perhaps a trace of one Sfrom the SIS mintmark just besides the S of the obverse name but most of the mint ID here is provided by the II in the field and the style.

    I like overstrikes when the details can be sorted out and identified. I bought this pretty mess at the Baltimore show in March 2012. Jumbled messes of indecipherable parts sell for less than normal coins but the dealer that had this one thought it was special and worth a premium approaching the cost of the two coins that made it sold separately. I agreed and the coin became mine.

    Copied from my 99 1/2 favorites page
     
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  18. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Heraclius, 610-641 AD, AE follis
    [​IMG]
    While Byzantine coins are not my specialty, this one made my list of favorites by going the extra mile and being mysterious. Many Byzantine coins were overstruck on earlier coins so that is nothing special. This one is a type of Heraclius and his son Heraclius Constantine of the Constantinople mint overstruck on a follis of Phocas also of Constantinople. I have turned the obverse image to be right side up for Phocas so the uppermost strike top is now to the right. I enjoy overstrikes where the types can be distinguished. What makes this one unusual is the bold TIB at the obverse left just next to the smaller OCAS of Phocas. This would seem to indicate the coin started out as an issue of Tiberius Constantine but I have no explanation of how the under-undertype could be so bold in just this small area without being erased by the Phocas or Heraclius dies. The TIB looks more like a countermark than an undertype. The mystery of how the design elements worked together to form this coin is the greatest part of its appeal to me and explains how it crept onto my list of favorites.
     
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  19. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    This Postumus over Antoninus Pius sestertius came to me since I posted my favorites page so it is one waiting for me to update and kick off the least favorites making room for some new ones. This would be a lot better if I could ID the Pius reverse.
    rx1912bb3190.jpg
     
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  20. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Trajan Decius - Silver Antoninianus - Rome Mint - 251 AD - overstruck on Geta denarius[​IMG]
    IMP CAE TRA DECIVS AVG / PANNONIAE
    Radiate bust right / Two Pannoniae - each with standard
    This antoninianus was struck at Rome in the last months of Decius' reign. Earlier scholars attributed coins with this obverse legend to a branch mint at Milan but more recent die link information has shown these to be the final product of Rome. It shows the characteristic, late abbreviation (TRA) of the Emperor's name; earlier coins spelled out TRAIANVS. Other examples of the Pannoniae type show a single standard between the two figures. The coin is sharply struck and unworn but still presents a confusing appearance due to being struck on another coin. Areas of the original coin design that lined up in the blank fields of the new design were compressed leaving a harder, brighter slightly spread out remnant of the original. Areas that lined up with more deeply cut parts of the new design left some details but these are hard to separate with certainty from the new details. Identification of the original coin requires a little detective work. Most obvious of the traces of the original design are the letters PRIN found upside down in the reverse exergue (below the ground line) of the new design. Continuing clockwise around the edge of the coin we find EN in the gap between the PA and NN of PANNONIAE. The spacing of these letters suggested the reverse legend was some abbreviation of PRINCIPI IVVENTVTIS. Counting back from Trajan Decius we find that this type was used by Diadumenian and Geta. To help determine which this was, I went to my photo file and found a coin of Geta with legend PRINC IVVENTVTIS. Rotating the antoninianus so the overstruck design traces were positioned as on the Geta allowed matching up of several other design points.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    The Decius Coin Rotated ------------------- Geta Denarius 200-202 ADThe two images above have been tinted red in areas that I saw matches. Most significant was the obverse trace of a G near Decius' mouth and the forehead to nose profile peeking out from under Decius' radiate crown. The hair appears to be a bit longer than usual for Diadumenian and the correctly placed G clinches the ID in favor of Geta. Do you agree? The reason coins were overstruck varied from example to example. This, however, was not an overstriking to destroy politically incorrect money (as would have been the case with Septimius Severus coins overstruck on those of Pescennius Niger) but simply an expedient way to double the value of the coin. Geta died before the issue of the first antoninianus. The original coin was a denarius weighing 3 grams. Overstriking produced a double denarius still weighing the same 3 grams (by this time an acceptable weight for the coin).
    Overstriking is just one of the many subjects we call 'technical numismatics'. Many collectors will find this coin confusing and defective but I get great enjoyment out of looking again and again to find even more points of evidence of the undertype. Which hairs on Decius' face belong to his beard and which were Geta's? Being able to identify the hidden undertype adds to the fun of what was already a nice coin.
     
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  21. THCoins

    THCoins Well-Known Member

    Not so ancient (1200 AD, Ala al-din Muhammad Khwarezm Shah).
    Flip-Over-Overstrike:
    FlipOverWeb.jpg
     
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