[ancients] Mystery of the missing patina

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by zumbly, Dec 3, 2013.

  1. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    I've not handled many orichalcum pieces that are sans patina, so after looking at this Marcus Aurelius sestertius over time, I started to wonder how it kept/acquired this color and whether what happened was natural or artificial.

    marcus aurelius liberalitas400.jpg

    You can see from the photo that the yellow seems to almost have an underlying dark tone, in some areas almost looking speckled.

    Was this coin stripped of its patina, is the color actually a coating on the coin, or is this just plain old 'Tiber patina'?

    Any ideas, anyone?

    Z.
     
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  3. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    I have a similar coin, and my conjecture is that it was harshly cleaned at some point, perhaps by electrolysis, and that it has re-toned either naturally or artificially (by way of a copper darkener.)

    Mostly I find it unappealing, but not always: it depends on the other merits of the coin and just how much of the raw metal is showing through. But the Tiber patina argument may also hold some weight. It's conjectured that bronze found in clayey substrates exhibits this sort of patina naturally - evidently coins found in the alluvial deposits of river basins have this look to them. I don't know how true that is, because only rarely can we trace a coin's provenance to the location it was found.

    Curiously, my one example of this kind of patina is from Rhesaena, Mesopotamia, and may well have been found in a river bank. I'll dig up the pics in a minute...
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2013
  4. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    I would agree that it had been cleaned and stripped of its patina earlier. Might have been some nastiness they were trying to remove from the coin.
     
  5. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    Here is mine. When I see raw bronze, I've got to think harsh cleaning. Is that a bad thing? I don't know - I didn't see the coin before it was cleaned. Perhaps it was so encrusted as to make it totally unacceptable. If this was a common LRB, I wouldn't have given it a second look, but it's an exceedingly rare Provincial, so you takes the good with the bad...

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. IdesOfMarch01

    IdesOfMarch01 Well-Known Member

    At an NAC auction in May of this year, a Titus sestertius was offered with "its original lustre exactly as it would have appeared in Rome in the first century AD."


    726833l.jpg

    Exactly how did it get into this condition? Was it chemically cleaned? If not, how could it have been preserved this way? Even my dealer with 30 years of experience couldn't really tell me.

    Not surprisingly, the hammer price was very high (CHF 150,000 not including buyer's fees) which exceeded my budget for this coin. I still have some regrets about not getting it.
     
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  7. Ancientnoob

    Ancientnoob Money Changer

    I am not one to purchase coins of 150K CHF price tag. So honestly I would have never looked at it. In my mind I just dont understand how Brass could have its original luster after 2000 years. It would be hard to believe that the coin was preserved that way. How could it have been in an oxygen free environment for that long? I just don't see how that is possible. It would have to had been chemically cleaned somehow.
     
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  8. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    IDK, I think it could be possible. Now I am not commenting on this specific coin, but many ancisnts were buried in pots. If you bury new coins in a pot, I am betting there is a chance some of the coins in the center of the pot might not have tarnished, since any tarnishing agents would be absorbed by coins closer to the edges of the pot.

    I have seen this commonly on rols of coins, (granted not 2000 years old), where the coins near the edge take the hit and the center coins are still lustrous.
     
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  9. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    Yeah. That Titus was probably in the middle of the roll. :)
     
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  10. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    I believe I have a similarly cleaned coin. 1006181.JPG
     
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  11. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    I have to agree I think my coin has been cleaned rather than found in a river. It just doesn't seem to have the sort of surface wear that would be more consistent with the look of a river find.

    IoM, thanks for posting the Titus sestertius. We commonly see these coins with the green/brown/black patinas that most desire so often that it's interesting to see one with it's original lustre, whether or not that phrase should be used with quotation marks. Stunning coin.
     
  12. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    Huh? ... geeesh zumbly, I absolutely love your OP coin!! (I'll find that poor, misunderstood coin a home) ...

    => "don't listen to their harsh words, lil coin ... come to stevex6's house, where you can run and jump with all of my other happy and well adjusted coins!!"

    ;)
     
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  13. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    Lol. I plead misunderstood owner. I just want to be able to love a coin with full knowledge of whatever 'faults' it may have.
     
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  14. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Well, I agree with steve. I like the coin. It can find a loving home right here.
     
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  15. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

    me also...not bad details really. nice obverse legend.
     
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  16. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    AAAAAAAAAAAhhhhhhh => I need to buy a coin!!!
     
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