I recall someone (here?) asking why a mouse was placed on this coin attributed to Ti. Quinctius, 112-111 BC? I believe I may have an answer (right or wrong) that might be of interest to some. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Roman_cuisine M. Aemelius Scaurus, consul in 115 BC, is said to have passed a law forbidding the consumption of doormice. This sort of thing would really not have been the venue of a consul but perhaps for a censor which is the office Scaurus was elected in 109 BC. In any event, the question as to the appropriateness of people eating mice that had been specially fattened for the purpose seems to have been current about the date of this coin. I do not own Crawford. Has anyone suggested a link between the rodent shown on this coin and the eating of doormice? Those who know me would not say that this is the wildest suggestion I've ever made. Comments including other proposals for better reasons why this coin has a fat and tasty looking rodent under the horses will be appreciated. For those not completely repulsed by this thread, I understand that doormice were considered a delicacy of the rich and pride was taken that the mice you served your guests were fatter than those of your competition. A law outlawing such a practice would be appropriate for a politician who considered outward shows of wealth contrary to the old Roman morals. I doubt it had anything to do with public health but evidence showing that connection would also be interesting. Some of us collect coins only of the highest grade or of the finest style but now I challenge you to show your mice that are fatter than mine. If you find this ridiculous, I suggest you have not studied the parts of Roman history and culture that don't get covered in high school Latin.
Your worst guess is much better than my best guess, but when we discussed this a couple of weeks ago, I put forward the following theory: I'm more than likely wrong, but I thought it was a good theory.
I like your theory, Doug, on the sheer ground of grotesque humor. I heard Paul Harvey's voice after reading your post: "...and now you know the rest of the story". It's one of those things that really should be true, even if it isn't. I'm the one that originally asked the question, but since then, I've discovered that RR silvers have presented a veritable menagerie over the course of their issue. Seaby catalogs all sorts of flora that have appeared under horses: bulls, dogs, dolphins, gryphons, hogs, owls, and flies, to name a few (Seaby I, 20ff). Seaby merely catalogs the pieces, and doesn't attempt to ascribe any symbolic or historic significance to the animals. Probably someone has suggested a meaning to them at some point in numismatic scholarship, but I haven't really looked.
I definitely do not qualify as a scholar but my inclination would be more likely that it is just included as a "yet another different animal on a coin". That wasn't very grammatically pleasing, but whatever. I would not be utterly shocked to find either the plague or the yummy doormice theory true, and the precooked dinner one would definitely have a cool factor.
That is an interesting idea, Doug. I've only ever handled one of these coins at a time, and never personally cataloged one. I had assumed that the mouse/rat was merely a control mark and assigned little significance to it. Assuming that the coin was definitely struck 112-111 BC, then the 109 BC date for the edict doesn't match up. But at the very least, there is something to the idea that the presence of the mouse was a satire of the upper class. If anyone manages to acquire some, I have a few ancient recipes for doormice that I'd love to try. I also have a recipe for roast peacock, but I don't think I'll get to try that one any time soon. Check out A Taste of Ancient Rome: http://www.amazon.com/Taste-Ancient-Ilaria-Gozzini-Giacosa/dp/0226290328/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top It's a cookbook with fairly loose directions, as should be for dishes that have been mostly forgotten for a few centuries. I've made the epityrum (seasoned olive paste), pepones (cantaloupe in a vinaigrette), and aprum assum (roast boar, with a pine nut and garum sauce). And of course I found a strong Spanish wine and mixed it with water, in the ancient style.
Perhaps it's a white rat which was auspicious in Roman culture and in this case might refer to the success of the games.
Whole peacocks are so last millennium. The in crowd dines on peacock tongues. The mouse is on all of these coins so it is not a control mark. The control is the letter above (mine .N). Banti lists 45 variations some with dots on various sides of the letters as well as mouse left and mouse right coins and a Trajan restoration version. The edict could have been from 115 when he was consul rather than 109 as censor. I also found a reference that Claudius repeated the ban on eating a glis so the practice must have been pretty common among the snooty rich. I see I misspelled the animal. It is dormouse referring to it sleeping a lot rather than being around openings in walls. I even see they had a word for a container in which to containing your dormouse while fattening him up - gliarium. Looking at all the photos in Banti and the half dozen on vCoins at present, I really believe that the critter is too chubby and cute to be a rat so I'm sticking with my snack-rodent theory.
Ya, but they aren't really bred for eating, ya know? Kind of like the difference between eating a pet parrot and a Purdue roaster.
Huh? => well, it's hard to tell which mouse (rat) is fatter, or more delicious looking? *sigh* => yah sadly, my coin does have a bit of reverse die-glitch ... but I still love this coin and I will fight to the death to support my peeps!! Oh, and Doug => sure, eating those sweet lil' doormice is nice, but catching those wonderful lil' morsels is a whole nutha story!!
I'd imagine a horse coulf easily flatten quite a large mouse http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edible_dormouse I'd prefer is stuffed and seasoned If Im really feeling snobby, i'll feed it peacock tongues to fatten it up.
I fear my hopes are dashed by the fact that the edible dormouse has a fluffy tail and not a rat tail as shown on the coin. That still leaves the question as to why the thing is on the coin.
Thisjust may add to speculation, but found this interesting. The Romans sometimes saw rats as omens as well. A white rat was considered by the Romans as auspicious. But a black rat has unfortunate significance. If you were Roman and found rats had gnawed your personal effects you should postpone any business you may have been considering. http://www.ramshornstudio.com/rat_history.htm The activities of mice and rats were believed to be quite prophetic. They were said to flee sinking ships and houses where death was imminent. They appeared in large numbers as an omen of war - most likely ready to feast upon the impending destruction. In Rome, white rats brought good fortune Ancient Greeks carried mouse coins to protect themselves against the mouse's evil eye In Ancient Greece, the destructive side of Apollo was called Smitheos or Apollo Smintheus from the Greek word "sminthus" which means "mouse." Sacred mice were kept in his temple and he was believed to shoot the arrows of plague. Strangely enough, under his beneficent aspect, Apollo guarded the harvest from infestations of mice. http://ww2.netnitco.net/~legend01/rat.htm
