Ancients: Guess this coin's final auction price

I've been looking for a small Vespasian bronze (as or dupondius) for my 12 Caesars collection for the past few years. At the Feb. 3 Art Coins Roma auction this coin (lot #511) was offered:



The catalog listing described it as:

"Vespasian (69-79), Dupondius, Rome, AD 71, AE (g 12,90"; mm 26; h 7), IMP CAES VESPASIAN AVG COS III, radiate head r., Rv. Roma seated l., holding wreath and parazonium; in field, S - C; in ex. ROMA. RIC I 476 = II 277;" C 411.Delightful glossy emerald patina, bolt portrait, good extremely fine."

The estimated value was 600 Euros. While not tooled, this coin has been highly smoothed in the fields as well as being re-patinated. I was prepared to bid very aggressively on this coin via my dealer. While I know top quality coins have been increasing in price for the last few years, I wasn't adequately prepared for this one.

Keeping in mind that the auction house adds a 21% buyer's fee, and the Euro is about $1.35, what do you think the final price (in dollars) was?

 

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About $1,720?

 

IDK.

Show me a comparable Julia Domna tet for that much...

 

I saw this coin when I was browsing the catalog. I guess around the same as Mat but just to be different I will go with $1735

 

You do understand that this coin sold for above the price that I was willing to offer? Well above...

 

$1,000,000 then?

 

I don't understand the question? I am guessing I am too low then? I don't know what you are willing to offer for a coin. You asked me to guess so I did.

 

Have you seen a photo of a Domna tet in that grade (smoothed or not) for any price?
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/f10.html
For the record I would not sell this dog for $1750 but no one would pay that for it either.

The Vespasian being described without mention of the smoothing and repatination probably sold to someone who doesn't care. The question is not how much they paid (that is posted online) but how much the coin will bring when sold with proper disclosure. I suspect there are enough people in the market for beautiful coins who don't care how they got that way that the price will remain high.

 

Nope. That's the point. Yours is the second (and better) example that I've seen.

 

Pretty much all ancients bronzes have been smoothed to some extent, so some smoothing is usually not considered an issue in a coin. However, aggressive smoothing that borders on tooling is usually detrimental to a coin's value, as is re-patination.

Somewhat surprisingly, re-patination seems to be less of an issue currently than just a few years ago, although personally I'm not 100% comfortable with this idea (but I wouldn't let it prevent me from obtaining an otherwise good coin).

Since the devices in this coin aren't tooled, it's my belief that the incredible detail was enough for bidders to put aside the high degree of smoothing and re-patination.

I don't think the "prices realized" for this auction have been posted yet, so I'll wait a little longer before revealing the results.

 

Nice coin. Even with smoothing and retoning, I think the 600 Euro was low. If it were a sestertius I would be in the 5 figures for a guess, but as a dupondius I would guess around 2000-2500 Euro. By the nature of your post I am assuming that guess is light.

 

I haven't any idea of what it sold for. I haven't looked. Keeping that in mind, I will guess at $7500.

 

They produced a nice 3D image of the coin if it helps assess the quality: http://www.studioskyline.com/clienti/bertolami/360/acr/asta8/A8-0511.html

I saw the price on Coretech so I will hold off on commenting, but as nice as it is, I don't blame you for missing out on it based on what it realized.

 

According to my dealer, the coin hammered for 14,500 Euros.

= $23,685.75 including buyer's fee and nominal exchange rate.

Add shipping and insurance, and it's a $24,000 coin at least.

 

Wow, thats insane. Not worth it at all.

 

Worth is relative, but you are right. Not worth it to me at all.

 

Im happy with my under $100 budget. That's why I dont mess with these auction houses. Even when I have, I get outbid.

Vauctions is luck at times.

 

Holy mother of ca$h Batman!

 

http://www.artcoinsroma.it/eng/auction/view/192/511
How did it get from 1050 euros? Click on the Information on Virtual Auctions link for explanation of a live sale following the electronic one. Am I correct that they don't post the final results so we have nothing but hearsay on the hammer?

 

So I was a little off but I was the closest then?

I agree, how'd it go from that link Doug provided to almost $24,000?