Ancients: Does this scare you? Should it?

I am in the process of changing the way my collection is stored so I am handling every coin as I write up the new ticket. Most of my coins have been photographed in the last ten years and I have changed the way I did it several times so it is always hard to say exactly how a photo compared to the 'in hand' look of the coin on that day. Some still look like my photos even if it has been quite a while. Others seem to be toning more. Some coins were old collection items when I got them. Some were new hoard coins and had probably been recently cleaned. In most cases, I do not know details but coins that have rested side by side for a decade are not all toning to the same degree. Some are getting darker gray. A few are deepening colors as I remember them. This sample is the same color are a pre digital print photo I took in 1997 but the colors are deepening. I suspect in a century the coin will be dark gray but it is now only on the journey. The golden parts are where there is thin silvering. Less silver protected areas are not the same color. I have no idea how much of this is from air and how much from residual chemicals from cleaning or impurities in the various storage methods used by me and the coin's previous owners. I also have no idea how rapidly the coin will continue to tone. You will hear claims of about ways of protecting coins from time but I believe time will have its way with us all. In another decade will this coin be prettier? Will I?

 

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My Histiaia, Euboia Tetrobal has been rapidly toning, mostly in gold tones. Ive had it for about 2 years. Some other ancient silver has also got gold forming and a few even have blue to go along with it. I keep them in the flip/album pages style. I cant say it scares me.

I get scared more about BD forming then anything else.

 

Hard to say, the toning is already growing on me the more I look at it.

 

One "trick" I have always used in my SDB is to have fresh silver unprotected scattered throughout the SDB, but mostly in the front. Whenever I open the SDB I check this silver. If its toning I know something is up. I immediately replace the fresh silver, (I put the old ones in tubes, you know I am not selling nothin'), and see if I can find what is causing the toning.

I have done this for years, and have little additional toning going on. I would suspect its the freshly cleaned coins that are most at risk, but all of the coins can toned if stored improperly.

 

@dougsmit , to answer the questions at the end of your post: 1) maybe, 2) no.

@medoraman , that's clever!

I expect that my coins will change in appearance over time. Coins which are currently shiny silver or overcleaned I'm not as careful with since I want them to tone a bit. I'm more careful with storage conditions of coins I'm happy with. No matter what I do though it probably won't stop the changes.

 

That is a rare and beautiful Probus! RIC 353, yes?

I'm with Mat. The only thing that I find worrisome is BD. Toning is an effect of time, and if you don't like it, I would refer you to Einstein's observation that if it weren't for time, everything would happen at once.

 

You should sir. Toning is not innocuous. Toning, if left untouched, is corrosion which will literally eat your coin until there is nothing left, just like BD. I have seen it, coins like Peace dollars black with toning, and when dipped literally a quarter of the coin now gone. I have bought some ancient silver in almost as bad condition. I was able to save them with lessons learned from my US coin days, and today they are silver and safe from harm once more.

We are the caretakers of these items. The most dangerous time of a coins "life" is not being buried in the ground for 2000 years, its the time spent above ground, subjected to the modern chemicals we have around us. Its our duty to learn how to protect our coins against these things, so that our heirs will have the same ability to collect and love these objects as well.

 

This could start a little argument then, especially in the u.s. forum where it's cool to pay much more $ for a toned coin then it is for blast white.

This is almost my blackest coin, yet one of my favorites. I saw many nervas but the dark toning itself won me over.

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I could never see myself dipping it and ruining the tone myself.

What about this? Again, got more for the toning and neither are the pretty rainbows.

 

Fair enough. I don't have so many coins that I can't check them every day - a couple of folders. In fact, I do look through them all at least on a weekly basis, and managed to spot and arrest some BD that cropped up. But as far as dark toning goes, again, I'm with Mat. Dark silver does not bother me in the least - I much prefer it to newly-cleaned silver. I'm actually hoping some of my blast-white denarii will mellow out over time.

 

I am not saying mellowing or slight darkening is an issue, but at some point the toning must be stopped. If it continues to proceed darker and darker, the end point of that progression is black silver dust, not a pretty coin. So retoning is fine, but please do not think its ok to let it keep getting darker and darker forever. At some point special precautions have to be used to stop the toning to protect the coin.

 

Btw, just for a background, toning is corrosion. They simply call it something else. Now, normally the reaction stops, (and the toning actually creates a barrier to stop the reaction), when an equilibrium is reached. However, if you store coins in a very hostile environment, (high humidity, warm, in the presence of sulphur compounds), the reaction can simply continue indefinitely. The end result of this will be simply a pile of rust. I have literally held them in my hands, coins only 20 years old utterly destroyed by corrosion due to very imperfect storage. I have also bought ANCIENTS that were dark black. A Trajan denarius comes to mind I bought a few years ago. Once I dipped it there was a touch of corrosion under the toning, but by removing the toning and storing properly, that coin is now safe from any further damage. Always be VERY careful with silver coins that are black toned. Many times these coins are already corroded. I bought the Trajan in a group lot, so did not buy it on purpose, but am happy it got an owner who knew how to protect it from further damage.

So, MOST of the time collectors are safe assuming a decent environment. But it is on us to ensure we are storing our coins properly. That is why I use loose, fresh silver, one of the most reactive metals, so that I always have a "canary in the coal mine" to check every time I open the SDB. If it is starting to tone, it means conditions are not perfect in there. Also, since the fresh silver is more reactive than my coins, they will "take the hit" and the toning chemicals will tend to be sucked up on them rather than the coins.

 

Sorry. Back to the coin of Doug, I can read Probun instead of Probus. N instead of S. Don't tell me this is common and not an error by the engraver.
Charles

 

I'm pretty sure that my coins are gonna out-live me ....

Yah, most of 'em are already 2000 years old, so I think that I'm merely gonna let 'em ride and see what happens!! (if only my flux capacitor was working => I'd go forward a few hundred years and check 'em out!!)

=> oh, and maybe I'll also go back to the future and snag a few more winners "hot off the presses"

 

Oh, and I'm a total fan of black-oxidized coins!!

 

Some coin cleaners use chemicals which not only tone by applying a dye, but by speeding up the oxidisation process with two chemicals dissolved in water. This process is very hard to halt once started and will cause bronze coins to fur up with a green deposit which isn't pretty every few months. It can be wiped, but comes back every time.

 

Its a common sentiment sir, "they have survived this long", but let's examine this. These coins HAVEN'T survived exposed to modern air and pollution for 2000 years. Most of them have been dug up in the last 30 years, then cleaned of all of their protective coatings they developed over 2000 years. They are very vulnerable in their new state. In reality, you can say they have been "newly minted" since they were dug up. As such, its our duty to protect them, because if we don't they will not last another 100 years, let alone 2000.

 

Bull ... I'm pretty sure that my coins hung around a while before their owners were killed and their houses were burnt and then eventually sediment covered the coins ... c'mon man!!

However, sure => I guess the dude that dug them up, cleaned them off and now they're newly exposed (I'll give ya that) ... ummm, it would actually be very interesting if somebody out there (not me) time-lapsed a few of their coins to see the rate at which these coins are being degraded

... I think that you rock, med-man (but I am not going to coat my coins ... I am merely going to let them ride ... but you're correct => maybe we are the dudes that are going to kill these poor, beautiful coins?!)

Wow => now you've got me thinking (obsessing, actually) ... maybe I should bury my coins in the dirt and "set them free"? ........ maybe? (probably not)

 

The legend is perfectly normal VIRTVS PROBI INVICTI AVG = The Virtue of the invincible emperor Probus. It is not common but not all that rare either. There are hundreds (a thousand?) Probus portrait variations. Many are rare.

 

My only point Steve was not we should bury them, but they are "naked" now that they got stripped of their protective coating, and are more vulnerable than ever before. We just need to protect them now that we removed their thick Canadian coat to see the hottie underneath, right?

 

Having read this I'm going to tuck my coins in, take an Advil and hit the sack.