ANCIENT - Possible Fake on the Bay-Sicily Leotinoi

Check the coin out here...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SICILY-Leon...555?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33817c46d3

I would love to know what you guys think about this coin. I looked at...

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/thumbnails.php

and I don't think any of the fakes really match, close,but I don't think they match...


If you guys think it might be really I might throw a bid at it....

 

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The listing states no returns or exchanges.

 

Noob, at 12:00 it looks like a bronze showing ob and rev..

 

I suppose when there is doubt there is no doubt, right fellas?

 

That may be the lighting. I am just noting the copper color in the photos. (I am not saying that it is genuine).

 

My first thought was that it was the lighting. Still not sure. I think the fact there is no edge photos and no returns suggests to me that the seller might actually know it is a reproduction. I really want to see edge pictures.

I think what I really want is someone to "swoop" in show my a link to the exact fake, that would be awesome.

In the mean time I am entertaining all forms of observation and speculation.

 

No return, no guarantee, “I do not know if is authentic or a replica” stated by the seller, not to mention the more than doubtfull look and feel of the thing... RUN I tell you, RUNNNNNNN !

 

A coin like that...I wouldnt attempt to buy on ebay. I dont like the look either.

 

i say fake, with how the cracks and little bubble holes on the edges look, it looks fake to me

 

I also think this is fake, but not for the same knee-jerk reasons you all do. The first thing I did was look at the seller's other offerings, which had two perfectly reasonable Seleukid drachms. I find it odd that someone would knowingly sell a fake in the company of those two. Combine that with the fact that the surfaces are very good (despite what people see as casting bubbles or a bronze core, all of which are imagined), I had a feeling that this just *might* be real.

So I next turned to Coinarchives to see if I could find a die match. I thought I had a rev. die match from a recent Roma sale. And then I saw the Gillet specimen (Leu 88, lot 71) and my heart nearly stopped. It looked like both dies matched! But then I looked again, the tail on the obverse lion swooped, rather than continuing fairly straight. A letter on the obverse didn't quite line up. If not the same dies, these are either by the same engraver (the Demareteion master), or a very good, die-struck fake inspired by him.

Then we have the flan cracks. All of the other examples of this issue have perfectly smooth edges. It is evident that some care was taken during striking. But this one has an edge riddled with splits, a flaw that usually happens if a flan was not sufficiently heated prior to striking. Again, none of the others exhibit this except, admittedly, the aforementioned Gillet specimen, which does not have as many or as pronounced flaws.

In conclusion, I feel this is an extremely high quality counterfeit that the forger inadvertently struck at the wrong temperature, but from well-engraved fake dies directly inspired by the Demareteion master. The seller's story is quite possibly true. He may very well have acquired an old collection at a garage sale at stupidly low prices, of which this fake was originally a part.

 

Very interesting and impressive analysis.

 

Full disclosure: if I had determined it to be real, I wouldn't have said anything. I could really use a down payment for a house...

 

Hahah, I feel you man. That would have been rather slimy. haha. Now I know if I spot something cool not to mention it here, or you might buy it, hahahaha.

 

There was a crisis of conscious. But thankfully I wasn't tested.

 

The fact that the seller knows what he sells, having attributed the thing quite correctly, he must know what these are worth if genuine. I can't imagine how he could ask 100 $ for it, on ebay, if he had any doubts about the "fakeness" of the coin imo

 

I knew someone like Bill would eventually come forth with an expert opinion, so I waited lest I should make a fool of myself. But my thinking on it is this: if you acquire a rare coin for cheap, a coin that could possibly garner a $10,000 hammer price, you wouldn't throw it on eBay for $100 starting bid and hope for the best. You would get it professionally appraised. If the coin was deemed a forgery, only THEN would you put on eBay for $100 and hope for the best.

This business of "I don't know whether it's real or not" is a blatant lie. The seller knows damn well it's a fake.

 

I agree, with all those red flags, I wouldn't touch that listing with a ten foot pole.

 

Agreed, but that's not really enough to condemn a coin. Enough to not bid? **** yes. But I think, in this case at least, it takes a little more detailed analysis to really say something is bad.

 

I have been following this entire thread all afternoon with some interest. I looked at the coin in question not knowing anything of it's origin and thought this was a nice looking coin. It did not raise any flags to me, but then again, I can be fooled as seen on other threads. Everyone makes valid points, and, in the end, I believe it is probably fake and the seller probably knows it as well. I never participate on any auction where the seller says he/she can't vouch for it's authenticity. JA is right imho. The seller is lying.

But it is a nice looking specimen.

 

Well if its too good to be true, it usually is.