Ancient Help!

Hey gang!

I recently ordered 5 kilos of uncleaned ancient coins from the middle east. I am having a blast going though them and cleaning them up.

I found this piece and it was not like ANY of the other's I have found... It still needs to go back in the oil for a bit... but what the heck is it?

 

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I forgot to add it's 8.200 grams

 

Closest I can find is:

SELEUKID KINGDOM, Alexander II. 128-123 BC. AE21 (21mm, 9.03g). Diademed and radiate head of Alexander II right. / Decorated double cornucopia. Spaer 2343.
http://www.vcoins.com/ancient/imperialcoins/store/viewItem.asp?idProduct=3117


Seleucid Kingdom, Alexander II AE 22. Diademed, radiate head right / two parallel cornucopiae bound with fillet; to left, club, in field, AP.
http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/seleucia/alexander_II/t.html

 

5 kilos is an interesting first purchase. I assume you will be adding a pickout pot to the store. Usually the middle east lots will have a mixture including some Judaean and Byzantine as well as the vast array of late Romans in unidentifiable condition. These Seleucid Greeks tend to have the ruler name on the reverse with Basileus (King) but many are small flans losing a letter or two at one end or the other. To ID them you need to learn the upper case Greek alphabet and recognize the word for king so you can ignore it in favor of the name (at bottom on yours). The coins tend to use the genitive "of King Alexander" so your coin legend ends in POY rather than EP.

Easy answer: post them here. We like challenges. Many will not be as clear as this.

 

Doug,

You nailed this lot mostly. I am coming up with a lot of decent Constantine coppers. I am getting a lot of byzantine and widows mites and other Judaean coins and a frew Greek pieces. Mixed in are quite a few arab coins some of which are silver. I will most definitely be taking you up on your offer.

I am going to sort them and then offer them in buckets in the shop... Something a little different and fun.

 

I wish I had better timing. I was just outside of Indianapolis two weeks ago. Maybe next year.

 

Here is another out of this lot I could use a little guidance on... What the heck is that on the reverse???

 

Hopefully this will get you pointed in the right direction. Reverse looks like a "lighted and garlanded altar".

Similar to the second example here from Antioch: http://www.acsearch.info/record.html?id=491858

Regards,

-Kurt

PS. Another similar one here: http://www.acsearch.info/record.html?id=495632

 

Note that last one appears to be a close match including the year 126. The reverse exergue has ET (year) followed by the Greek numeral for the year. They tended to say 6 and 20 and 100 rather than 126 which is good since the 100 (P) is easier to guess than the other two. Note also that that coin was a lovely example an fell way short of their estimate of $125. These civic coins have fewer followers than the ones with portraits of name rulers and altars are hard to get excited about compared to coins with gods and animals. Tyche (or city goddesses) is usually easy to identify by the turreted crown which is not worn by rulers. Compared to the lower coin in the top link (equally a match) it even has the obverse legend on flan (probably why they estimated it so high).

Are you showing us the best of the lot or just the ones that are impossible to ID? There may be enough variety in this lot that it is educational. Congratulations to Biancasdad for getting this one.

 

Thank you Doug. I definitely learned something new about the dating system.

I remember reading in one of Wayne Sayles introductory collecting books about this type of dating on coins. I was just googling Greek numerals and it shows p=100 as you said, k=20, and a very strange symbol in the middle στ (or ΣΤ or ς) = 6.

Also, I think you are spot on about the lack of collector interest for the rather mundane altar type. Put a beetle on the reverse and maybe the coin realizes $150, lol.

Regards,

-Kurt

 

Doug,

I'm just posting the pieces that I'm only seeing 1 or 2 of. I have quite a few pieces that I have many examples of. I'm continuing to clean them piece by piece and sort them. I'll get my results posted as soon as I am satisified that no more can be recovered.

 

Im very impressed and interested in uncleaned ancients. It just seems a bit overwhelming to start out. Keep us posted on your finds Dutchman! Great Post

 

Let it be understood that I never recommend uncleaned coins except for those interested in fun and education. Those interested in building a nice collection or making a monetary profit on the experience would be better off buying individual coins or collections of selected coins (when a widow walks into the shop with her husbands collection). A thousand standard unsorted uncleaned coins may turn up only a hundred varieties and perhaps a dozen nice 'collectible' coins by standard definitions. Of course this can be more or less just like buying a hundred lottery tickets can turn up a hundred million dollars or a pile of scrap paper. I have bought a very few groups of uncleaned coins over the years and perhaps a few dozen individual coins with intent of cleaning them up. Uncleaned coins is a different hobby than collecting ancients. All I ask is individuals understand what they are getting into whichever decision they make.

Shop owners will also have an option of putting out the 'losers' in a pot and charging customers a few dollars per coin. Many non-collectors will enjoy owning something that old for almost nothing. The only problem is that the very few of them who do go on in the hobby will discover that what they bought were not really all that nice and that decent common coins of the same age are available for very little more. In the interest of keeping them as happy customers, I'd suggest having a small stock of nicer, professionally cleaned $10-20 ancients so they won't feel the dealer did not inform them of the options up front. The number of non-collectors who believe anything 1600 years old must be extremely valuable has created a target market group willing to pay $20 for junk but who later will come to the belief that all coin dealers are crooks. We have enough of that sort of thing without adding to it.

 

Id love to just bring my Garret AT pro to england or israel and start detecting. Id probably have more luck detecting gettysburg..lol. I just moved to the beautiful state of maine because I found a nice garbage pit that has centuries of amazing relics. Im also on the hunt for Benedict Arnold's treasure.
Lots of nice islands up here too to detect, but nothing like whats being found overseas.

So the gamble of buying unsearched isnt worth it? I hear if you can buy as direct to the diggers as possible, and in bulk, you may find decent coinage. I know nothing about ancients and figure it would be a fun way to clean and learn. Of course Id love to profit too, but profiting on something I know nothing about is not going to happen. Ancients intimidate the **** out of me. I know I could study and research all day and night, for years and years, and still not know enough to make a living selling them. Also, the Indiana Jones like risk of dealing in the priceless relics and coins has got to make for a scary life.

 

Once again Doug you have read my mind. I am going to get them sorted by both origin and quality and offer several different options in the store.

I would definitely agree that every lot is going to be different but my particular lot is turning up about 60% at least identifiable as far as origin is concerned after just a week of processing. I am now onto the longterm soak for some of the coins with the heavier debris.

 

Distilled water? It does work faster than tap.

 

I soaked in water first until no more was coming off then I have moved on to penetrating oil. I have also experimented with my industrial ultrasonic.

 

For example here is the group of Nabataean Kingdom coins I have pulled out of the lot so far. Not all beautiful but still identifiable.

 

Some of those looks kinda neat.

 

Yeah there are several nicer pieces.